Hallmark Channel Announces Full Line-Up of Original Premieres During "Countdown to Christmas"

TomSouthwell wrote:
It's been mentioned tons of times before by the site admin the reason we don't allow these movies is that the current system we have in place, ie Stars, Guest Stars, Crew etc can't be applied to a TV movie in the same way it's applied to a TV series. This is the only reason that they aren't allowed.

That's easily solvable. If the name is mentioned in the intro credits, put them as starring cast. If their name isn't mentioned until the end credits, put them in guest cast. Just because a name isn't explicitly called starring or guest starring doesn't mean it can't be inferred. TVmaze admins just need to formulate a policy around this stuff so people know how to properly add this content. Policies around this should be put in place anyway as long as you're allowing TV movies that have sequels.

dpratt wrote:
That's easily solvable. If the name is mentioned in the intro credits, put them as starring cast. If their name isn't mentioned until the end credits, put them in guest cast. Just because a name isn't explicitly called starring or guest starring doesn't mean it can't be inferred. TVmaze admins just need to formulate a policy around this stuff so people know how to properly add this content. Policies around this should be put in place anyway as long as you're allowing TV movies that have sequels.

I'm telling you that a policy will not be made, this discussion has been had many times, by many different people, until Jan/David implement the system they feel comfortable with (if that time comes) then the compromise has been made that series of one offs are allowed to be added.

Tom is right.

TomSouthwell wrote:
It's been mentioned tons of times before by the site admin the reason we don't allow these movies is that the current system we have in place, ie Stars, Guest Stars, Crew etc can't be applied to a TV movie in the same way it's applied to a TV series. This is the only reason that they aren't allowed. However series of one-off TV movies are allowed as Gadfly has stated. For example http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/9983/professor-branestawm

Well, in fairness, TVMaze is doing it with some TV movies (i.e., Sharknado). So they can be applied to TV movies. Albeit in a different way, but they can be applied.

That to me is the problem with opening the door to some TV movies. You can't claim that it's not possible, if... well, the site demonstrates that it is possible. :) The argument then comes down to personal preference rather than coding/logistics, and it becomes a lot stickier.

dpratt wrote:
Yes you are correct that she pops in during the commercial breaks, not during the show.
Thanks for your post. Just to be clear, my position is that all made-for-TV movies should be added to the site, upon the approval of the TVmaze admins of course. I'm not talking about movies that were released in theaters first, or at film festivals. I'm talking about movies that went straight to television: Lifetime original movies, Hallmark original movies, etc. Probably not straight to video though, like Netflix or Amazon original movies, since those are arguably not straight to TV.
Someone said this would be Pandora's Box. I assume that means there would be way too many entries on this site which would need verifying and editing. And therefore it's simply too much work. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I do understand that keeping a site like this going involves an incredible amount of dedication. There is a lot of work put into this site, verifying information is accurate. I understand that it might need a doubling of efforts to try and maintain this site.

If she's not appearing as part of the movie, I'd say she isn't part of the movie.

You're welcome. :) Please note that my posts are only my personal opinion, not any kind of official statement. My only solid opinion on the subject is that it should be all or nothing.

That noted, I don't think it has anything to do with editing and verifying: it's not like moderators would take extra time with them. Because... well, there aren't moderated subs at TVMaze. The staff rationale is basically that TVMaze is dedicated to TV shows. Not "Anything That Appears on TV." I think we all understand the distinctions between Theatrical Movies, TV Movies, and Direct-to-Video Movies. But by it's very name, a TV Movie is... well, a TV something, and a movie something. The current policy is to let some TV movies on the some site. Folks can take that as, "Wow, at least we got something, let's be happy with that!" Or "Now that the camel has its nose in the tent, let's shove the head and body in." As the staff responses above show, I don't think the latter is going to work.

If a network announces a 2- or 3-part "mini series" we'll add it without even thinking about it. But what's the real difference between a 3-part miniseries and a 3-part TV-movie?

That's why we don't outright ban a series of something labeled "TV movie" but instead rely on the definition as described in http://www.tvmaze.com/faq/13/shows: in a serial format, i.e. the two episodes should correlate to each other, air on the same network, and have an overlap in plot/cast/crew.

Allowing one-off TV movies won't happen anytime soon, for the reasons listed in page 1 of this thread.

david wrote:
If a network announces a 2- or 3-part "mini series" we'll add it without even thinking about it. But what's the real difference between a 3-part miniseries and a 3-part TV-movie?
That's why we don't outright ban a series of something labeled "TV movie" but instead rely on the definition as described in http://www.tvmaze.com/faq/13/shows: in a serial format, i.e. the two episodes should correlate to each other, air on the same network, and have an overlap in plot/cast/crew.
Allowing one-off TV movies won't happen anytime soon, for the reasons listed in page 1 of this thread.

air on the same network - As I stated a long, long time ago when I first saw this many Networks are affiliated with each other and sometimes they pass a show, series or Movie to one of their affiliated Networks. Good example if a Movie aired on Lifetime TV and another part aired a year later of Lifetime Movie Network then it's no good can't be added? Or on Hallmark Channel and then on Hallmark Movies & Mysteries Channel, There are many more examples of affiliated Networks like Cooking Channel & the Food Network they trade shows back and forth constantly. All the Disney Channels trade shows back and forth and the Nickelodeon Channels and the ESPN family of Networks. I could go on and on and on but see no reason to!

JAGUARDOG wrote:

air on the same network - As I stated a long, long time ago when I first saw this many Networks are affiliated with each other and sometimes they pass a show, series or Movie to one of their affiliated Networks. Good example if a Movie aired on Lifetime TV and another part aired a year later of Lifetime Movie Network then it's no good can't be added? Or on Hallmark Channel and then on Hallmark Movies & Mysteries Channel, There are many more examples of affiliated Networks like Cooking Channel & the Food Network they trade shows back and forth constantly. All the Disney Channels trade shows back and forth and the Nickelodeon Channels and the ESPN family of Networks. I could go on and on and on but see no reason to!

If the networks are affiliated I would say we should treat them as it is the same network, but the other condition that david mentioned also need to be applied.

"If a network announces a 2- or 3-part "mini series" we'll add it without even thinking about it. But what's the real difference between a 3-part miniseries and a 3-part TV-movie? "

As David noted, 3-part TV movies are allowed. So it seems to be a moot point.

"air on the same network - As I stated a long, long time ago when I first saw this many Networks are affiliated with each other and sometimes they pass a show, series or Movie to one of their affiliated Networks."

Network affiliation is only one of the three points in the rules, there's also 1) correlating to each other, and 2) share plot/cast/crew. You can't look at just one: that's why there's the other two.

"Christmas to Countdown" does not have the individual movies share the same plot (although they share the same theme: the holidays). They don't share the same crew. And if you consider "cast" to mean characters, they don't share the same characters. I don't know what "correlate" means in this context: it sounds a lot like sharing. But a show has to share/correlate the plot/cast/crew of the various episodes to be a show.

Now, if folks want to list one-shot TV movies anyway... well, more power to you. But the current rules are sewed up pretty tight on forbidding them but compromising by allowing some TV movies. So good luck with that. Citing the current rules to get the one-shot TV movies listed is either going to be ignored (with an occasional "We've already said that" thrown in), get the rules rewritten to close the supposed loopholes being found, or get all TV movies forbidden.

I don't recommend anyone start adding one-shot TV movies unless the admins approve it first. From what I gather that probably won't happen any time soon. But I definitely think it's worth considering.

David or Jan, This has gone on long enough, no end in site and no resolution can you please lock this thread up now?

Regarding crew not being consistent from one movie to the next, that is the norm in scripted television. Usually only the producers are consistent from one episode to the next, while writers, directors, and other crew vary.

dpratt wrote:
Regarding crew not being consistent from one movie to the next, that is the norm in scripted television. Usually only the producers are consistent from one episode to the next, while writers, directors, and other crew vary.

Actually, that's not entirely true, at least for American TV. Once Upon a Time, Westworld, Supergirl, Gotham, Lucifer, Timeless, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Agents of SHIELD, American Horror Story, Arrow, Supernatural, MacGyver, Grimm, Sleepy Hollow... for each one, 90% of the crew credits are exactly the same within a season. The only ones that vary besides the writers and directors are the Editors and Directors of Photography. And 2-3 others in the small print at the end, the relatively minor people like Writer's Assistant and Production Staff.

And even when it varies, sometimes it varies consistently. Agents of SHIELD varies the production staff, but every even-numbered episode is consistent, and every odd-numbered episode has a different batch... but they're consistent from odd episode to odd episode.First and Second Assistant Directors often work the same way.

But regardless, from what I've seen most of the Hallmark "Countdown" movies are produced by different companies, have different producers, and so on.

Gadfly wrote:
If folks are going to argue that TVMaze shows some movies and thus that's encouraging more debate... an easy solution would be to get rid of all movies already on the site. That's why I'd be leery of asking for more movies to be added: it might have the opposite effect.

Saying if people ask for more items to be included in the db may result in other things being removed to stymie the request seems like a heavy handed way to suppress an open discussion. Punishing people for making a request seems like a great way to drive traffic away from the site. I know, 3 yrs late but ...  ymmv