I know I asked this forever ago, but for example - can we have Firefly officially ordered by show order, or are we still ordering it based on air date still?
Furen wrote:
I know I asked this forever ago, but for example - can we have Firefly officially ordered by show order, or are we still ordering it based on air date still?
Our series will always be listed by airing date :)
Well, then you're making mistakes which is sad. You need to allow leeway when a show is being aired our of order but then the sequence is corrected on dvd/bluray or other streaming services. Firefly is a rarity and you could allow it on a case by case basis.
We will always use the episode's initial/premiere numbering as primary numbering scheme.
If you want to see support for alternate numbering schemes like Firefly's DVD order, vote for "Alternate episode numbering" at http://www.tvmaze.com/forums/6/pending-features :)
Tonks wrote:
Well, then you're making mistakes which is sad. You need to allow leeway when a show is being aired our of order but then the sequence is corrected on dvd/bluray or other streaming services. Firefly is a rarity and you could allow it on a case by case basis.
The problem is that a great many shows are aired out of order (i.e., not in the order they were filmed). It goes at least as far back as Star Trek. "The Cage" was the first episode made: when did that air? "Where No Man Has Gone Before"? was the second episode. When did that air in sequence? And what episode did they start with? "The Man Trap."
Wild Wild West was another one all over the place in its fourth season, when Ross Martin had a heart attack and they mixed "Artie is on assignment in DC" episodes with "Nope, he's here on the train" episodes.
Just last year, they preempted an episode of Supergirl. The problem is that the rarity isn't that rare, and case by case basis become dozens if not hundreds of cases you have to decide. Which is why you come up with a hard-and-fast rule. But if something is a rarity, then you don't need to make an exception for it.
I voted it up a long time ago. I know I didn't see any news, but I wasn't sure if I just missed it.
Vote for Alternative Numbering everybody!
Gadfly wrote:
The problem is that a great many shows are aired out of order (i.e., not in the order they were filmed). It goes at least as far back as Star Trek. "The Cage" was the first episode made: when did that air? "Where No Man Has Gone Before"? was the second episode. When did that air in sequence? And what episode did they start with? "The Man Trap."
Wild Wild West was another one all over the place in its fourth season, when Ross Martin had a heart attack and they mixed "Artie is on assignment in DC" episodes with "Nope, he's here on the train" episodes.
Just last year, they preempted an episode of Supergirl. The problem is that the rarity isn't that rare, and case by case basis become dozens if not hundreds of cases you have to decide. Which is why you come up with a hard-and-fast rule. But if something is a rarity, then you don't need to make an exception for it.
I agree with you, those are not what i think of. Firefly as i said is a rarity, that's why i said a little leeway. It can be discussed internally or on the forums to decide which way to go. Of course, most procedurals are not aired in order, sometimes, news will intervene (buffy, john doe, supergirl, etc), most of the time this will not be applicable.
And we know why the cage (the real pilot was not aired first (and maybe it should be first in some way... I don't know for that one specifically. But for Firefly, we all know the correct order is the DVD one... you just need a note, explaining why it's not airdate sequence but dvd sequence and locked it.
Well, equally, you can have airdate sequence and explain in the note what the DVD sequence is and explaining why it isn't DVD sequence. :) That's a matter of whether TVMaze should have Note of some sort.
Equally, you could put a pinned list in the forum of the DVD sequence.
The point is, why does Firefly need a little leeway? What is it that you're saying is and isn't applicable ("...this will not be applicable.")
For instance, Firefly didn't air the "right" way because the network tinkered with it. But that's what NBC did with "The Cage" and Trek, too. Roddenberry wanted the episode to air first, the network wanted "The Man Trap." It's what CBS wanted with Wild Wild West. TNT did it with Babylon 5. And so on. They pretty much all generated continuity errors.
Are there pre-emption type "news" schedule changes as well? Sure, although those are typically the network doing tinkering as well. A nervous network exec will do things that a producer could care less about. And even if the producer did care, it wouldn't change their "intention" to air A first and B second.
That's why airdate works: Once you pick the country you're going to use for any given season/series, it's always the same. If you go by "intended" order, you have to potentially discuss every show where intended didn't match airdate. And the Internet is a big place: there'll always be someone who wants to discuss it. :( And no real way to decide it except to make an arbitrary decision. The airdate order is staff's arbitrary decision.
And the info can be put in the season guide. It might not be as visible, but then again, most people don't care. And the ones who do already know about it.
There seem to be three issues.
a) There is no objective "right way." i suspect that which way someone wants it listed is based more on how big a fan they are. Is listing them in the order they were intended "right"? Sure. But so is listing them by TV airdate on a site that is a general TV database. You've got two rights, so someone has to decide which right is... well, "right". :)
b) Once you open it up to debate, it will always be open to debate. Not only is there no objective "right" way to list it (or they're all objective;y as right as the other), but someone will always want to debate it. If the debate is resolved now... in a month, someone new might come along, not see the debate here (or not be satisfied with the result), and debate it again. And again. And again. The site already has issues that get raised over, and over, and over. Why invite more?
c) TVMaze is... well, TVMaze. Not DVDMaze, or WhedonMaze, or FireflyMaze. Shouldn't how something aired on TV be the primary source? I can see why a show dedicated to FIrefly might list them in intended order. Firefly is all it deals with. But that ain't TVMaze. It has to design "mass" rules that can be applied to thousands of shows.
Gadfly wrote:
There seem to be three issues.
a) There is no objective "right way." i suspect that which way someone wants it listed is based more on how big a fan they are. Is listing them in the order they were intended "right"? Sure. But so is listing them by TV airdate on a site that is a general TV database. You've got two rights, so someone has to decide which right is... well, "right". :)b) Once you open it up to debate, it will always be open to debate. Not only is there no objective "right" way to list it (or they're all objective;y as right as the other), but someone will always want to debate it. If the debate is resolved now... in a month, someone new might come along, not see the debate here (or not be satisfied with the result), and debate it again. And again. And again. The site already has issues that get raised over, and over, and over. Why invite more?
c) TVMaze is... well, TVMaze. Not DVDMaze, or WhedonMaze, or FireflyMaze. Shouldn't how something aired on TV be the primary source? I can see why a show dedicated to FIrefly might list them in intended order. Firefly is all it deals with. But that ain't TVMaze. It has to design "mass" rules that can be applied to thousands of shows.
Well said :)