Adding actors as Main Cast or not

To my mind, the question isn't so much what sites TVMaze uses before the show airs. It's that the information here gets corrected to match the show credit once it does air.

As for the rest, to me it boils down to these:

"IMDB.com – Does show her in the Cast but their reliability on what counts as Main cast has always been in question as they have her in 1 Episode. In my opinion 1 Episode does Not make you main cast out of 10 in the can so far. "

and

"I have seen this done a few times lately with Cast Members that I would have kept in the Main Cast based on the number of Episode appearances they are credited for myself? "

The number of episodes an actor appears in doesn't determine whether they're main cast. The only thing that makes somebody Main Cast for most US scripted shows is... if they're credited on-screen as main cast.

Karl Yune was in 19 out of 23 episodes of Arrow last year. Matt Nable was in 10 episodes. But they both were guest stars. Brandon Routh was in 16 episodes, but he was a special guest star.

Lee Arenberg has been in 38 episodes of Once Upon a Time. He's always a guest star.

Heck, IMDB has Neal McDonough listed for 23 episodes of Arrow: because some numb-nuts submitted all 23 episodes of the upcoming season and they accepted it. And the contributor assumed that he'd be in all 23 episodes, which I'll bet anyone anything that they want that ain't happening.

Number of appearances isn't a reliable indicator of main/guest/special/co-star status. Especially numbers at IMDB, as you point out.

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Based on what I've seen over the years, Futoncritic (when they rely on press releases) is the most accurate when it comes to listing main cast for shows before they air. But even after they air, I've seen actors listed on Futoncritic as main cast that weren't credited that way on-screen.

For what it's worth, as far as I can tell, IMDB doesn't list "Main Cast".

Take Supernatural, for instance. Jim Beaver has been in more episodes (58) than Mark Sheppard (51), Lauren Cohan (6 episodes), or Katie Cassidy (6 episodes).

But Beaver has always been listed as a guest star, and the other three were listed as main stars. And Mark Sheppard wasn't listed as a Main Star until season 10, So 45 of those episodes were guest star appearances. IMDB doesn't tell you any of that.

If IMDB doesn't tell you who are Main Cast, then I'd say that IMDB is useless as a source for Main Cast. And... they don't.

Gadfly wrote:
To my mind, the question isn't so much what sites TVMaze uses before the show airs. It's that the information here gets corrected to match the show credit once it does air.
As for the rest, to me it boils down to these:
"IMDB.com – Does show her in the Cast but their reliability on what counts as Main cast has always been in question as they have her in 1 Episode. In my opinion 1 Episode does Not make you main cast out of 10 in the can so far. "
and
"I have seen this done a few times lately with Cast Members that I would have kept in the Main Cast based on the number of Episode appearances they are credited for myself? "
The number of episodes an actor appears in doesn't determine whether they're main cast. The only thing that makes somebody Main Cast for most US scripted shows is... if they're credited on-screen as main cast.
Karl Yune was in 19 out of 23 episodes of Arrow last year. Matt Nable was in 10 episodes. But they both were guest stars. Brandon Routh was in 16 episodes, but he was a special guest star.
Lee Arenberg has been in 38 episodes of Once Upon a Time. He's always a guest star.
Heck, IMDB has Neal McDonough listed for 23 episodes of Arrow: because some numb-nuts submitted all 23 episodes of the upcoming season and they accepted it. And the contributor assumed that he'd be in all 23 episodes, which I'll bet anyone anything that they want that ain't happening.

Number of appearances isn't a reliable indicator of main/guest/special/co-star status. Especially numbers at IMDB, as you point out.
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Based on what I've seen over the years, Futoncritic (when they rely on press releases) is the most accurate when it comes to listing main cast for shows before they air. But even after they air, I've seen actors listed on Futoncritic as main cast that weren't credited that way on-screen.

I have to say I agree with everything gadfly said here. There is no way anyone can know for for sure who will be the main cast in a new show before it airs.

The only 100% correct way is to go with the on-screen credits.

The best and most reliable source for main cast before a show airs is in my opinion futoncritic, but they are also not always 100% correct on it.

So actually we can TRY to add the main cast as good as possible before a show airs, but the definite and 100% accurate main cast we will not get before we have seen the on-screen credits.

What we should not do is to list all cast we see on imdb as main cast before a show airs, because imdb is very random on those things.

Actually for figuring out who is main cast in a show imdb is totally useless.

cheers
Juan

JuanArango wrote:
I have to say I agree with everything gadfly said here. There is no way anyone can know for for sure who will be the main cast in a new show before it airs.
The only 100% correct way is to go with the on-screen credits.
The best and most reliable source for main cast before a show airs is in my opinion futoncritic, but they are also not always 100% correct on it.
So actually we can TRY to add the main cast as good as possible before a show airs, but the definite and 100% accurate main cast we will not get before we have seen the on-screen credits.
What we should not do is to list all cast we see on imdb as main cast before a show airs, because imdb is very random on those things.
Actually for figuring out who is main cast in a show imdb is totally useless.
cheers
Juan

Well, I don't know about you but I for one don't watch 90% of the shows on U.S. TV and those I do watch I don't watch them to look at the credits and write them down. I don't go on the Internet to search if there is a place the 1st Episode aired where it might be available and i stopped buying DVD's or any other type of recorded material 2 years ago because money is very tight. The few shows i ever bought on DVD were "The Adventures of Superman" (Every single season), "SOAP" (Every single season), "Smallville" (Every single season), "Duck Dynasty" (Season 1 only) and most of the seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Do you by any chance catch my drift here or do you or someone you know write down TV credits to use on the site?

As far as one of my questions are concerned, I see you could care less for the number of episodes a person shows being credited in anywhere on the Internet, I get that. However I still contend that some of those cast members should be in the main cast as well as the ones already there at least until someone "watches the credits" on TV, on Line, on DVD or wherever which may or may not ever happen? Is it okay for someone to remove Main Cast or move them to Guest Cast before the show airs 1 episode anywhere, I say a resounding NO. If an episode airs somewhere by any means and someone "Who claims" to have seen it starts removing or moving cast to Guests do they need to prove they watched the credits somehow, I doubt that very much as there is no way anyone can disprove their claim.

As far as Gadfly's comment about IMDB, I do agree to a degree in what he is saying as they do not and never have stated "Main Cast". But most sights do not spell out "Main Cast" they just provide a list of actors/cast and it is us that must assume they are Main Cast. The only sources I am positive always spell out "Main Cast" is tvtango.com & wikipedia.com all others we just speculate about including futoncritic.com. Don't get me started on talking about them as being the most unreliable TV site on the Internet for the past 5 years or so becasue I could give you many, many examples of their screwups. I even sent Gadfly 2 PM's on 2 different occasions early this year where they listed special episodes airing nightly on PBS and not one of those ever aired on PBS or any other Network in the U.S. and PBS had no record of a single one of them. It was like someone was making up stuff over there for 2 weeks?

JAGUARDOG wrote:
Well, I don't know about you but I for one don't watch 90% of the shows on U.S. TV and those I do watch I don't watch them to look at the credits and write them down. I don't go on the Internet to search if there is a place the 1st Episode aired where it might be available and i stopped buying DVD's or any other type of recorded material 2 years ago because money is very tight. The few shows i ever bought on DVD were "The Adventures of Superman" (Every single season), "SOAP" (Every single season), "Smallville" (Every single season), "Duck Dynasty" (Season 1 only) and most of the seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Do you by any chance catch my drift here or do you or someone you know write down TV credits to use on the site?
As far as one of my questions are concerned, I see you could care less for the number of episodes a person shows being credited in anywhere on the Internet, I get that. However I still contend that some of those cast members should be in the main cast as well as the ones already there at least until someone "watches the credits" on TV, on Line, on DVD or wherever which may or may not ever happen? Is it okay for someone to remove Main Cast or move them to Guest Cast before the show airs 1 episode anywhere, I say a resounding NO. If an episode airs somewhere by any means and someone "Who claims" to have seen it starts removing or moving cast to Guests do they need to prove they watched the credits somehow, I doubt that very much as there is no way anyone can disprove their claim.
As far as Gadfly's comment about IMDB, I do agree to a degree in what he is saying as they do not and never have stated "Main Cast". But most sights do not spell out "Main Cast" they just provide a list of actors/cast and it is us that must assume they are Main Cast. The only sources I am positive always spell out "Main Cast" is tvtango.com & wikipedia.com all others we just speculate about including futoncritic.com. Don't get me started on talking about them as being the most unreliable TV site on the Internet for the past 5 years or so becasue I could give you many, many examples of their screwups. I even sent Gadfly 2 PM's on 2 different occasions early this year where they listed special episodes airing nightly on PBS and not one of those ever aired on PBS or any other Network in the U.S. and PBS had no record of a single one of them. It was like someone was making up stuff over there for 2 weeks?

I watch a lot of shows and for those I actually do enter the on-screen credits.
But of course the vast majority of shows I do not watch, for those I go with the press releases of futon. They are not perfect, but they are from my experience the most reliable source on the internet.

The amount of episodes a person stars in a show has no direct influence if that person is main cast. Often some characters appear in many episodes, but only for a few seconds or a minute, those are not credited as main cast most of the time.

Everything else besides on-screen credits or press releases is speculation.
If we got a show here that no one watches (so no on-screen credits will be used) and if also for that show a press release is not available, then we only can go look around the internet and look for what probably comes close to the best solution.

And you got a point there Ron, if no one watches a show (from the contributing people here) and we got no press release, we have to go what we think is most likely correct.

cheers
Juan

JuanArango wrote:
I watch a lot of shows and for those I actually do enter the on-screen credits.
But of course the vast majority of shows I do not watch, for those I go with the press releases of futon. They are not perfect, but they are from my experience the most reliable source on the internet.
The amount of episodes a person stars in a show has no direct influence if that person is main cast. Often some characters appear in many episodes, but only for a few seconds or a minute, those are not credited as main cast most of the time.
Everything else besides on-screen credits or press releases is speculation.
If we got a show here that no one watches (so no on-screen credits will be used) and if also for that show a press release is not available, then we only can go look around the internet and look for what probably comes close to the best solution.
And you got a point there Ron, if no one watches a show (from the contributing people here) and we got no press release, we have to go what we think is most likely correct.
cheers
Juan

Thanks Juan, I will ask this question one last time in hopes that maybe I will finally get an answer this time? I know you said 2 times that episode appearances stated somewhere do not mean anything at least not until they can be proven are we together on this point? Now the question itself do you believe as I do until a press release or something official comes out or an episode airs somewhere and someone writes down the credits that the Cast members I originally mentioned with 9 Episodes, 7 Episodes, 6 Episodes & 5 Episodes out of 10 qualify to be in the main cast until proven differently? This is a Yes or No question by the way?

AGUARDOG wrote:

If an episode airs somewhere by any means and someone "Who claims" to have seen it starts removing or moving cast to Guests do they need to prove they watched the credits somehow, I doubt that very much as there is no way anyone can disprove their claim.

I'll glad to send staff or anyone else who wants to see it, screen captures of the credits that I use for the cast & crew information that I submit. Or a site where they can find the video so they can see the credit roll for context. I can't guarantee that kind of info is available for every show. But it's available for every show I submit for. Anyone can disprove my claim by showing the credits proving me wrong.

However, it seems like a moot point. No one is doubting that you or whoever "who claims" to see the # of appearances at IMDB. It's not about seeing the proof: it's about the reliability of the proof.

JAGUARDOG wrote:
Thanks Juan, I will ask this question one last time in hopes that maybe I will finally get an answer this time? I know you said 2 times that episode appearances stated somewhere do not mean anything at least not until they can be proven are we together on this point? Now the question itself do you believe as I do until a press release or something official comes out or an episode airs somewhere and someone writes down the credits that the Cast members I originally mentioned with 9 Episodes, 7 Episodes, 6 Episodes & 5 Episodes out of 10 qualify to be in the main cast until proven differently? This is a Yes or No question by the way?

yes :)

Gadfly wrote:
AGUARDOG wrote:

I'll glad to send staff or anyone else who wants to see it, screen captures of the credits that I use for the cast & crew information that I submit. Or a site where they can find the video so they can see the credit roll for context. I can't guarantee that kind of info is available for every show. But it's available for every show I submit for. Anyone can disprove my claim by showing the credits proving me wrong.
However, it seems like a moot point. No one is doubting that you or whoever "who claims" to see the # of appearances at IMDB. It's not about seeing the proof: it's about the reliability of the proof.

I think trusting a person that he added it from on-screen credits should be the way to go....especially if it is a trusted contributor :)

cheers
Juan

JuanArango wrote:
yes :)

TY

JuanArango wrote:
yes :)

Wait, now I'm confused. :( The question was: "Now the question itself do you believe as I do until a press release or something official comes out or an episode airs somewhere and someone writes down the credits that the Cast members I originally mentioned with 9 Episodes, 7 Episodes, 6 Episodes & 5 Episodes out of 10 qualify to be in the main cast until proven differently?"

Since IMDB uses episode counts but never lists main cast, and Jaguardog believes that IMDB can be used, you're saying... Yes, we can use IMDB?

That seems to contradict what you said earlier: "Actually for figuring out who is main cast in a show imdb is totally useless."

So... IMDB is useless for figuring out who pre-premiere main cast is, but... we can use it for that?

(That's Yes or No, too :) )

Gadfly wrote:
Wait, now I'm confused. :( The question was: "Now the question itself do you believe as I do until a press release or something official comes out or an episode airs somewhere and someone writes down the credits that the Cast members I originally mentioned with 9 Episodes, 7 Episodes, 6 Episodes & 5 Episodes out of 10 qualify to be in the main cast until proven differently?"
Since IMDB uses episode counts but never lists main cast, and Jaguardog believes that IMDB can be used, you're saying... Yes, we can use IMDB?
That seems to contradict what you said earlier: "Actually for figuring out who is main cast in a show imdb is totally useless."
So... IMDB is useless for figuring out who pre-premiere main cast is, but... we can use it for that?
(That's Yes or No, too :) )

I said "YES" to the fact, that we have to use "something" in case we do not have a press release or on-screen credits. But imdb is by far the worst choice for that, I thought Ron understood that, better go to any other site than imdb :)

cheers
Juan