What is missing on shows - what needs to be added

Hi Tonks,

TVrage was indeed a very nice tool (however I heard it will be back very soon) for us to find guest stars for episodes, however this wasn't always right too. There were plenty of errors made and the only way to find the 100% correct cast is to use the credits of these episode series, but that would be simply too time consuming to do of course, so we use as many sources as possible like TVrage, Futon & TheTVDB, however IMDB might be handy so now and then too, however we have already three options for guest stars; Special Guest, Guest and Co-star.

However there is a possibilty to merge both accounts into one if there is a duplicate, but once someone with the same name shows up, but is in fact a different person, you can create it as a new actor and the next search both persons will appear with their different identity number to know the differences, so in case you will be adding 2 different actors with the name 'Guy Morton' for example, it will appear as Guy Morton [50634] and Guy Morton [50635], so it is only to you to make up which person you needed and me and Juan have the option to sanitize in shows to re-do errors or check faulty things on here.

We know we are missing a lot of crew positions, however I have pointed this out and it doesn't have a first priority yet as there is plenty of stuff to do. Do realize that this site is running by just two people and they rely on contributions.

Adding alternate air dates is already in the list-to-do for David, you might want to take a look over there and vote by following a topic for the priority to add it, for now we can use only official first air dates. Adding foreign titles is already available here, but now shown on main page. This can be viewed by clicking on the edit button at the end of the series title and there will be shown a tab with AKA's, however searching with this foreign title, will end up showing these series too, so in case you have the series 'Comrades' and you search for a title called 'The Legend of the Patriots', you'll be heading towards the comrades series if a foreign title has been added.

However 'Creating' is not misleading in my opinion and explains perfectly that you are creating something. Could you give me an example of it in what way it would be confusing?

Networks can be added already from any country of the world, but usually will be added when someone suggests us a show to be added with a not-known channel in ourdatabase.

I suppose we have to wait for David or Jan to answer most of your questions/suggestions and to explain you this more in detail.

Cheers,

I'm glad you heard tvrage will be back because that github feed where they said that sys admin shut it down is scary. Epguides is right now totally crippled and its founder doesn't know anymore than we do.

As for the use of "create" : you're not creating, you are adding information, creation means something entirely. It's not the proper word/verb to use. It's the use of improper English that makes my skin crawl. But it's semantics, it's your website. I still think it's an improper use and people will look for the verb add or update more than create, but it's your site.

I understand that you guys are "new" though a year to add what i think is the minimum requirements for each guide is a bit confusing to me and i'm not saying this as a lay person, i'm also at the head of a ginormous db and we rely heavily on tvrage or imdb or futon. And right now, even doing the simplest think like adding upcoming episodes that would have been there on tvrage is impossible using your website.

I saw what you posted on twitter about your website is. Your CM or one of you told the entire community, you had us covered, but you don't. what you offer mainly is calendar (i have futon critic or myepisodes or whatevs) and Apis and lastly you show guides which for me tells me all i need to know. Your main goal is schedule and apis maybe news and interviews in the future, i'm sure.

I contributed thousands of entries on tvrage, i did entire guides and while your site is nice to look at, it's less busy, it's actually an improvement on both tv.com and tvrage eyecandy wise, the fact is, i can't use your site, It won't help me in any way and i can't contribute because you don't have enough stuff to add as of yet.

I think you should add what i suggested you add for guest/crew, musical guest and stuff like that because for varieaty shows, SNL, or any late show, you need these entries. You may not be as comprehensive as tvrage, but you can get close.

And yes i know there were many errors on tvrage, credits added to the wrong person, duplicates etc ; any database that is being filled by users will have that problem. Imdb, tv.com or even ours have that problem.

But let me say this loud and clear, your site is amazing to look, the search function is pretty amazing though i do question that possibility of adding same name instead of forcing the contributor to make sure it's either the right one or the incorrect person and thus "creating" a new entry into yourdb, but it's your choice.

This is a link to a website that will give you pretty much all French channels operating right now, you have 4 listed, this should help you out.

On the right side, there is a column with major categories. Some might never be of use to you, but "Grandes chaînes" (23 networks) "cinema series" (about 15) "divertissement" (some may already be listed in either grandes chaînes or cinéma séries will feature all the networks you need for France. http://programme-tv.premiere.fr/Tous-les-programme...

Good luck guys and let's hope tvrage will be back shortly.

Hi Tonks,

Firstly, welcome to tvmaze. I appreciate the time you've taken to give us your feedback.
It's nice to hear what we're doing right, just as important is to know where we need to improve.

tvrage is indeed a valuable resource. If it goes offline it will be a great loss for everyone on the internet.
Aside from what i've just said. We created tvmaze with the aspiration to surpass the sites you've mentioned in every way. Contentwise, UI, UX and in service overall. Doesn't mean we don't admire them. Some of them probably started the same way we did. As 'the new kids on the block' with a big dream. We still have some catching up to do here and there, but i'm certain our site and API will be far more reliable than anything before us. If you check our logs you'll see we're constantly updating/improving the site and our API

You haven't told us what site you're from. Doesn't really matter either. Feel free to drop in and have a chat with us whenever you feel like.
Maybe we can compare sites ;)

Maybe David will drop in as well and reply before we discuss your feedback in more depth later tonight.

Hello Tonks,

I like to reply to some things you said :)

First of all I do not understand this part: "the fact is, i can't use your site, It won't help me in any way and i can't contribute because you don't have enough stuff to add as of yet."

We have more than 3000 shows , we got cast, screencaps, summaries, crew, galleries and so on, so I do not really understand what you mean with your statement.

Regarding the suggestions to all the "crew roles", in my experience 0.01 % of people care about who was a 3rd assistant director, best boy or catering service on a tv show, the crew that matters is creator, director, writer, story, teleplay, producer, exec producer, all the rest is in my opinion "useless knowledge"

About tvrage I have to say the following:

There was a time when I used it a lot, it was a good site with lots of functions and options.

Nowadays it is a wreck of a tv site, almost half of the stuff is broken and NOT fixed anymore and won't be fixed anymore.
There has been zero development on tvrage for about 2 years.
If you ask something in the forums, you either get no answer or you maybe get one after a week.
The site is dying, if it really comes back again, which I am really not sure about, it will be gone in a year max. This is my opinion but everyone who takes a look behind the scenes and recognizes that more and more functions are broken and not be fixed, should come to the same conclusion.

The huge pro tvrage still has is the huge amount of data it has, but all of the "old" data tvrage got from tvtome, so it was not even build from the core, it just got the database from tvtome when it shut down.

It is logical that we cannot have that amount of data in one year, but we feature all running shows and more and more old shows are added each day, as you can see.

Also a huge difference compared to tvrage is that one of the main aspects of our site is a "custom watchlist, a calendar and user statistics.
We also got character pictures and character pages.

Also the first impression I get when I visit a website is the one that makes me want to check it out.
You already said yourself that tvmaze has much more eye candy and it looks like a website that is up to modern standards, whereas tvrage looks like a page where there has been nothing changed for a very long time., besides that more and more stuff is not working anymore.

those are just my 2cents,

cheers
Juan

P.S: Tonks , are you gadfly on tvrage ?

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

We already have the distinction between regular Guest Stars, Special Guest Stars and Co-Guest Stars. I'm happy to add more possibilities to that list, but the amount of usages should be substantial.

The same goes for the list of Crew positions: a lot of the entries you list are already available in our system! If you are missing any positions that you think will be used frequently, please let us know individually :)

Adding a headshot/picture to our autocomplete search system for persons is indeed on the wish list, that'll definitely be included in the future! For now, as Thomas wrote, if there are multiple people in our database with the same name, their TVmaze ID will be shown in the list so that you can differentiate.

For the rest, our database is 100% user-generated content, so we are as complete as the community makes it :) We welcome contributions to any TV show in the world; regardless of the country, language or network. If a show's network does not exist, we'll simply add it once it's requested, it definitely does not mean the show isn't welcome!

oh you can't quote ?

You said "We already have the distinction between regular Guest Stars, Special Guest Stars and Co-Guest Stars. I'm happy to add more possibilities to that list, but the amount of usages should be substantial."

I think it would important to distinguish musical guests from just guest. That way, you should be able when you "create" a new person that is a band, you choose musical band, instead of unknown or gender neutral.

Those that I listed are important and I only listed the ones that are used frequently, whether on variety shows or even scripted shows etc. For people who love shows, being as truthful to the credit is important. I see gadfly is working with you now. I hope that'll help you make it better.

I'm going to ask this because i can't fathom why it is so cumbersome to add someone to a show/episode :

You search the name and instead of being done, you need to "create" that name if that person doesn't exist and then instead of just adding the name you need to "create" that character name. So you have to "create" the actor when you add/him to an episode or a show and then you have not only to write the character's name but you have to click to "create" it again. That's four actions. instead of two, I think. Then you have to make sure you check the box to return to that page if you're going to add other people. That's 3 actions that might not be needed. Why not simply go back to that page by default ? And just have the character's name entered. If a person doesn't exist, you'ùll always to have that extra bit of work in choosing gender etc, that i'm not contradicting, but that bit about the character's name makes no sense.

You might not want to have forms as detailed as tvrage used to have, though that would contradict what you boasted about being wanting to be better than imdb or tv.com or tvrage.

Also, i think, that considering you don't have 1/10th of the shows that rage had, you should let us "create" them with a form similar to what rage had. And add as may genres as possible (as someone asked). It doesn't hurt you, it will make your database better.

Aim not to satisfy the user who just wants a date cause that dude won't be coming back much, but aim for the user who wants the extra bit of information he can't find anywhere. The more specific you are, the better you will be. Also, one of you said noone cares about the third third director, yeah, that is true except for that person who will try to add him/herself (i've got friends in the business and they add themselves) and then that third third director might become first AD, then director of photography, then director, then producer. But if you can't add the smallest job, then you miss part of a filmography and that's too bad for you, but also it tells that person not bother with your site.

In fairness, you're responding to something Juan said 15 days ago as of my typing this, and a lot has changed for TVMaze since then.

As a point of information, I would correct one thing he said, though: "We also got character pictures and character pages." TVRage did have that capability, on the Character Guide page. It wasn't often used, or an automatic feature like it is on TVMaze, but it was there for those who wanted to use it.

Two things:

1) I disagree that having as many genres as possible is a good idea. Because there are a... well, not infinite, but pretty big list of genres. Knowing a show is a Drama / Comedy / Suspense / Mystery / Thriller / Horror/Supernatural / College / Women's Issues (just to reference a potential Scream Queens genre list:) ) tells me... well, nothing. There's such a thing as being too detailed, if you see what I mean.

2) While it's not a priority, IMO, I agree that having "unimportant" crew positions is useful. I think there's a point of diminishing returns, But without getting into redundancy, I'd like to see the list expanded substantially. But then I like seeing that the guy who worked on Ray Bradbury Theater 27 years ago working on The Whispers this year.

JuanArango wrote:

P.S: Tonks , are you gadfly on tvrage ?

Probably not... :)

LOL, considering we chatted on tvrage, yeah i'm not you :p But people who had seen me post on tvrage forums would have known the similarities between my name there, tv.com, tvtome and here etc..

1) about genres, i didn't mean on shows. But as options. You could limit the choice between 3/4 on shows but i agree with you. On our database, it's limited to 2 and i debate all the time to add more, cause 2 isn't enough.

I was talking about expanding what we can contribute, more in terms of options available, less in terms of what can be shown on pages which can be limited.

2) we agree :p Might be why they asked if i were you.

I didn't answer before because 1) I was holding up some hope tvrage would be back 2) they said no to pretty much everything, what's the point of discussing ?

I tried to contribute to tvmaze yesterday i think (or two days ago) and for me, it's not user friendly, thus my question. I mean i really don't get the reason behind having to click create on character's name that you just entered in a text space... It's too time consuming, too cumbersome, not user friendly. Tvrage had a lot of problems (on stuff i never used so didn't care much), but their adding system was a beauty to behold. Not as extensive as imdb (who is ugly as butt), but pretty close. I fear to know how their system behave with actors recurring with different names...

I would not have answered at all if i didn't submit because i hate when a page is not accurate. And being counter productive isn't helping anyone. If they're the replacement, we grieve for the loss of nearly 25 years of database and move on and try to make it better. I won't contribute until it has a better system. I stop adding because well while i think having accurate pages is good, my time is precious and the interface is irritating me to no end. And if it's not really user friendly and making me lose time, i'd rather lose it on my own database and for the show i was trying to update, mine is accurate.

While I'd agree the system was and is cumbersome here at TVMaze, I think a) it's improving, b) the folks responsible are willing to improve it, and c) the folks who can improve it are actually engaged with contributors. At TVRage, not so much.

I think that the main problem is that TVMaze didn't have a wide range of feedback. Probably because a lot of the people who did that kind of feedback were at TVRage, and are now here. :) Now there's a lot of people here who are contributing, and want to contribute the way that they're used to. I don't believe that TVMaze should be a carbon copy of TVRage. But there are some basic things that I think TVRage and IMDB and TV.com and whoever else all have, and they're not here at TVMaze. Yet.

Plus speaking from personal experience, sometimes there are just things that if it's just you, you shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, yeah, this is kinda awkward. But I'm used to it, and there are other things to do, so I'll let it go." When you got 50 more people saying the same thing, then you start addressing it. :)

Thanks again for the feedback. This is quite some text, so forgive me if I forget to address anything you said.

You can quote by clicking the reply button at the bottom right of each post.

We don't have an explicit "gender" for musical groups/bands yet. I'm not sure yet either if that that would be the best way to do this - considering a band the same kind of entity as a person is quite a hack. That makes it a more complicated decision, so it's not addressed yet. It has been talked about before though, so we'll get around to it eventually.

As I mentioned, many of the crew credits you listed already exist in our database. If there are any specific types you'd like to see added that we don't already have, please request those individually. The best thread to talk about this would be here: http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/285/extra-crew-types

I disagree with you on the process of adding a a new person or character. It's important that creating a new item in our database is a distinctive different action from selecting one that already exists. One extra click sounds like a very fair tradeoff to get you to think about whether you really want to create a new actor/character, vs. risking a higher chance of duplicate entries. (You should take note that on TVmaze, as opposed to many other sites, characters are an entry with their own page, and not just a piece of text attached to a cast credit! This wouldn't work if people were to blindly create a new separate character entry for each time the character appears.)

Since yesterday, we have exactly what you describe regarding adding new shows: http://www.tvmaze.com/request

I'm not a huge fan of genres because they're completely arbitrary, but that doesn't go for crew types. There are limits of course (as I wrote, I think it's overkill to add an entry like "[country] Casting" for each country in the world), but if there are established types of crew credits that we miss I'll gladly add them. These have to be added manually though, and since we're extremely busy right now it could take a while. We'll get to it.

Tonks wrote:
LOL, considering we chatted on tvrage, yeah i'm not you :p But people who had seen me post on tvrage forums would have known the similarities between my name there, tv.com, tvtome and here etc..
1) about genres, i didn't mean on shows. But as options. You could limit the choice between 3/4 on shows but i agree with you. On our database, it's limited to 2 and i debate all the time to add more, cause 2 isn't enough.
I was talking about expanding what we can contribute, more in terms of options available, less in terms of what can be shown on pages which can be limited.

2) we agree :p Might be why they asked if i were you.
I didn't answer before because 1) I was holding up some hope tvrage would be back 2) they said no to pretty much everything, what's the point of discussing ?
I tried to contribute to tvmaze yesterday i think (or two days ago) and for me, it's not user friendly, thus my question. I mean i really don't get the reason behind having to click create on character's name that you just entered in a text space... It's too time consuming, too cumbersome, not user friendly. Tvrage had a lot of problems (on stuff i never used so didn't care much), but their adding system was a beauty to behold. Not as extensive as imdb (who is ugly as butt), but pretty close. I fear to know how their system behave with actors recurring with different names...
I would not have answered at all if i didn't submit because i hate when a page is not accurate. And being counter productive isn't helping anyone. If they're the replacement, we grieve for the loss of nearly 25 years of database and move on and try to make it better. I won't contribute until it has a better system. I stop adding because well while i think having accurate pages is good, my time is precious and the interface is irritating me to no end. And if it's not really user friendly and making me lose time, i'd rather lose it on my own database and for the show i was trying to update, mine is accurate.

Well,

first thing I have to say, we are around almost one year, tvrage was around for 10 years or so? I dunno the excat time.and tvrage did not have to built their database they just "got it" from tvtome.
And we are constantly trying to improve and listen to useful suggestions we are getting. So far the feedback of almost all users is very positive. But as with all other aspects of life, you cannot please everyone.
But not every suggestion we find useful, a suggestion you might make is maybe not useful to alot of other people.

From what i read of your posts here, you seemed to love tvrage very much and it sounds like it was the perfect tv site for you.
Nothing wrong with that of course.

My opinion of tvrage is way different, for me it was the worst programmed tv site i ever saw, terrible chaotic design, no interaction from the owners with its staff, an answer in the forum took 10 days in case someone really bothered to answer you at all.

Our goal is definitely NOT to make this a copy of tvrage because then we would have failed.

Tvrage had a VERY loyal userbase and some amazing editors (the gadfly edited shows were perfect in my opinion) and a massive amount of data for known reasons, but for me those are the only postive things about tvrage.
But opinions differ, this is just my opinion.

Of course we will listen more and more to what users would like to see, we are implementing new stuff weekly here, the staff is literally working their ass off, you can count on that.

On tvmaze the users kind of decide what the next implemented feature will be, they can vote on it, what gets the most votes will be implemented next. Have you ever seen anything like that on tvrage ?
There was nothing implemented for years, actually it lost functionality more and more.

We are trying to listen to the users around here, but of course we cannot listen to every suggestion, some suggestions we simply think are not suitable to tvmaze and we do not want it.

But if you have followed what happened here the last few weeks, how much suggested things were implemented by david and Jan, you should see that we are listening and willing to add more and more useful stuff to the site, some of it takes time, some things happen fast.

You also mentioned that it is hard to contribute here on tvmaze, many users think the other way round, we get more and more active contributors daily.
If you have decdided not to contribuet here, it is a free world, just do not do it then.

About being accurate....you are not really saying tvrage had an accurate database, are you?
It was full of errors like every other database on every site, a database can never be 100 % correct.

And if there are people in the end who do not like what they see here, then it is fair and square that those people use an alternative on the internet :)

cheers
Juan

david wrote:
We don't have an explicit "gender" for musical groups/bands yet. I'm not sure yet either if that that would be the best way to do this - considering a band the same kind of entity as a person is quite a hack. That makes it a more complicated decision, so it's not addressed yet. It has been talked about before though, so we'll get around to it eventually.
As I mentioned, many of the crew credits you listed already exist in our database. If there are any specific types you'd like to see added that we don't already have, please request those individually. The best thread to talk about this would be here: http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/285/extra-crew-types
I disagree with you on the process of adding a a new person or character. It's important that creating a new item in our database is a distinctive different action from selecting one that already exists. One extra click sounds like a very fair tradeoff to get you to think about whether you really want to create a new actor/character, vs. risking a higher chance of duplicate entries. (You should take note that on TVmaze, as opposed to many other sites, characters are an entry with their own page, and not just a piece of text attached to a cast credit! This wouldn't work if people were to blindly create a new separate character entry for each time the character appears.)
Since yesterday, we have exactly what you describe regarding adding new shows: http://www.tvmaze.com/request
I'm not a huge fan of genres because they're completely arbitrary, but that doesn't go for crew types. There are limits of course (as I wrote, I think it's overkill to add an entry like "[country] Casting" for each country in the world), but if there are established types of crew credits that we miss I'll gladly add them. These have to be added manually though, and since we're extremely busy right now it could take a while. We'll get to it.

For musical groups, i think you should not even have an option on gender. They didn't on tvrage. Again, i'm not saying this just to irritate you, i'm just saying what worked.

Okay, for characters's guide, actually, tvrage and imdb did/do have them. I'm not sure what's the point , quotes and appearances i guess, but if you want it and find it entertaining, it's cool.

The process and gadfly agrees, is not easy, it's not straight forward. you have to search for the person (that's normal) then, choose the correct one, (that's normal) then add character's name, that should be it.

you have search, then create, then add a characters' or check a box for himself/herself or voice and then create and then check that stupid box to return to that page. That last part isn't necessary at all. If you're done, you can go back to the episode by yourself or to another site...

You use "voiced over" which is totally different than "voiced by" for animation, which is a great addition and wasn't there when i posted. So thank you. Voice over is for the narrator.

"Voiced over" is the dude commentating on Jane the virgin, or Dexter or in Arrested developpment or Elliot commentating over is on actions on Mr Robot. A Voice in animation is an actor giving his voice to a character it's not over something, it's an actor voicing something (grammar). You should change that if you haven't yet, but i'm not going to debate if you refuse or don't understand the difference. Voice or voiced by is correct, voice over is incorrect.

David, i understand why you think it's not important to say from what country casting is for example. But you're trying to be the best site on this subject, so add it. It doesn't hurt in anyway. I understand you have a lot of stuff to do right now so yeah crew might not be on my priority list either in your shoes, it might be, I actually don't know. I know they're be two things that would be on my priority list, make sure you can add the relevant people with their correct position (actors/crew) and that favorite system to go your show instead of using the search bar. And have a better system to had shows, i looked at that request page, before you talked about it. It looked like a list. I was thinking more in terms of letting us "add shows entering everything, from number of season, etc...

Juan, you have a problem or had a problem with tvrage. Fine. You have more contributors today because it's sinking than tvrage isn't coming back. We pretty much don't have a choice. Take the good stuff (and i know it can sound arrogant), and leave the bad stuff ; their interface was great for content (people, quotes, bands, stuff like that), take it for you. That was their strength, you should use it. When i saw 800 words didn't have half of its main cast here, i wanted to add. I just found the interface not usable in a friendly way so after two additions or three i stopped, it was taking too long. My guide on my website is correct, i help out at tvrage because i hate when guides are empty and i can do the work at the same time on both sites. But i don't want to do it right now here. Not until it's gets easier and it will I'm sure !

I have voted for a few of the stuff pending. I also vote on hootsuite, i know what voting means, it means you make the user believe he/she matters, but ultimately, it's your decision. It took me 10 seconds to vote so no problem but honestly, that's a gadget, you may think this is important. And you may be different from other sites, but experience says otherwise. I hope i'm wrong and i'll apologize if i am ;)

Your try to salvage tvrage db is great, really if you can get my guides. Legally speaking the only thing you really can't use is summaries and recaps even the official ones are copyrighted that is why tvrage always added the source even if you think it's superflulous, saying it's from CBS protects you (for example). The rest is fair game.

Juan, it's moot what was wrong or not on tvrage, it doesn't exist anymore. Implement the really good stuff they had. You're the next generation, be better.

david wrote:
As I mentioned, many of the crew credits you listed already exist in our database. If there are any specific types you'd like to see added that we don't already have, please request those individually. The best thread to talk about this would be here: http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/285/extra-crew-types

While I understand adding them isn't a priority, I would note two things:

1) The longer they're not available, the longer they can't be put in. There's no real way to "store" them. DVRs don't have infinite space. :) So, if, say, some crew positions that were on Gotham the other night aren't available here, they're not going to get put in. At least, not by me.

So if the new positions aren't added for a month, every episode that airs in that month most likely won't have those positions added.

2) Speaking as someone who likes adding "minor" crew credits... it's easier to have them all available here, then to have to pick and choose from among which ones are and aren't available.

-----

I'm not saying that TVMaze allow contributors to add their own crew positions. That's what TVRage did, and it was a mess. Just realize that there are people who want to add them, and the longer it takes to get the positions in, the longer the site will go without that data. Whether you consider that a loss or not... is your call. :)

Tonks wrote:
For musical groups, i think you should not even have an option on gender. They didn't on tvrage. Again, i'm not saying this just to irritate you, i'm just saying what worked.
Okay, for characters's guide, actually, tvrage and imdb did/do have them. I'm not sure what's the point , quotes and appearances i guess, but if you want it and find it entertaining, it's cool.

The process and gadfly agrees, is not easy, it's not straight forward. you have to search for the person (that's normal) then, choose the correct one, (that's normal) then add character's name, that should be it.
you have search, then create, then add a characters' or check a box for himself/herself or voice and then create and then check that stupid box to return to that page. That last part isn't necessary at all. If you're done, you can go back to the episode by yourself or to another site...

You use "voiced over" which is totally different than "voiced by" for animation, which is a great addition and wasn't there when i posted. So thank you. Voice over is for the narrator.

"Voiced over" is the dude commentating on Jane the virgin, or Dexter or in Arrested developpment or Elliot commentating over is on actions on Mr Robot. A Voice in animation is an actor giving his voice to a character it's not over something, it's an actor voicing something (grammar). You should change that if you haven't yet, but i'm not going to debate if you refuse or don't understand the difference. Voice or voiced by is correct, voice over is incorrect.
David, i understand why you think it's not important to say from what country casting is for example. But you're trying to be the best site on this subject, so add it. It doesn't hurt in anyway. I understand you have a lot of stuff to do right now so yeah crew might not be on my priority list either in your shoes, it might be, I actually don't know. I know they're be two things that would be on my priority list, make sure you can add the relevant people with their correct position (actors/crew) and that favorite system to go your show instead of using the search bar. And have a better system to had shows, i looked at that request page, before you talked about it. It looked like a list. I was thinking more in terms of letting us "add shows entering everything, from number of season, etc...

Juan, you have a problem or had a problem with tvrage. Fine. You have more contributors today because it's sinking than tvrage isn't coming back. We pretty much don't have a choice. Take the good stuff (and i know it can sound arrogant), and leave the bad stuff ; their interface was great for content (people, quotes, bands, stuff like that), take it for you. That was their strength, you should use it. When i saw 800 words didn't have half of its main cast here, i wanted to add. I just found the interface not usable in a friendly way so after two additions or three i stopped, it was taking too long. My guide on my website is correct, i help out at tvrage because i hate when guides are empty and i can do the work at the same time on both sites. But i don't want to do it right now here. Not until it's gets easier and it will I'm sure !
I have voted for a few of the stuff pending. I also vote on hootsuite, i know what voting means, it means you make the user believe he/she matters, but ultimately, it's your decision. It took me 10 seconds to vote so no problem but honestly, that's a gadget, you may think this is important. And you may be different from other sites, but experience says otherwise. I hope i'm wrong and i'll apologize if i am ;)

Your try to salvage tvrage db is great, really if you can get my guides. Legally speaking the only thing you really can't use is summaries and recaps even the official ones are copyrighted that is why tvrage always added the source even if you think it's superflulous, saying it's from CBS protects you (for example). The rest is fair game.
Juan, it's moot what was wrong or not on tvrage, it doesn't exist anymore. Implement the really good stuff they had. You're the next generation, be better.

Well Tonks,

I think we are two very different individuals and will not get on common ground here. I personal find your attitude not fitting, but that is maybe just me, myself and I :)

If you really think that we made the "you vote on what will be implemented next" as a hoax, then even one more word from me to you is wasted...

cheers
Juan

Tonks wrote:

I have voted for a few of the stuff pending. I also vote on hootsuite, i know what voting means, it means you make the user believe he/she matters, but ultimately, it's your decision. It took me 10 seconds to vote so no problem but honestly, that's a gadget, you may think this is important. And you may be different from other sites, but experience says otherwise. I hope i'm wrong and i'll apologize if i am ;)

Hi Tonks,

All you need to do is check the suggestions forum from oldest to newest and you'll see just how many requests we get done.
Usually when we add requests to the pending features, it's to have the priority of development be decided by the users themselves. A pending feature is something that we've already decided to add while discussing it in a request thread. If we don't like the idea we'll just say so and specify why. So yes, we are giving the users voting power on what to do next.

cheers,

Jan

Tonks wrote:
1. The process and gadfly agrees, is not easy, it's not straight forward. you have to search for the person (that's normal) then, choose the correct one, (that's normal) then add character's name, that should be it.
you have search, then create, then add a characters' or check a box for himself/herself or voice and then create and then check that stupid box to return to that page. That last part isn't necessary at all. If you're done, you can go back to the episode by yourself or to another site...

2. Juan, you have a problem or had a problem with tvrage. Fine. You have more contributors today because it's sinking than tvrage isn't coming back. We pretty much don't have a choice. Take the good stuff (and i know it can sound arrogant), and leave the bad stuff ; their interface was great for content (people, quotes, bands, stuff like that), take it for you. That was their strength, you should use it. When i saw 800 words didn't have half of its main cast here, i wanted to add. I just found the interface not usable in a friendly way so after two additions or three i stopped, it was taking too long. My guide on my website is correct, i help out at tvrage because i hate when guides are empty and i can do the work at the same time on both sites. But i don't want to do it right now here. Not until it's gets easier and it will I'm sure !
I have voted for a few of the stuff pending. I also vote on hootsuite, i know what voting means, it means you make the user believe he/she matters, but ultimately, it's your decision. It took me 10 seconds to vote so no problem but honestly, that's a gadget, you may think this is important. And you may be different from other sites, but experience says otherwise. I hope i'm wrong and i'll apologize if i am ;)

3. David, i understand why you think it's not important to say from what country casting is for example. But you're trying to be the best site on this subject, so add it. It doesn't hurt in anyway. I understand you have a lot of stuff to do right now so yeah crew might not be on my priority list either in your shoes, it might be, I actually don't know. I know they're be two things that would be on my priority list, make sure you can add the relevant people with their correct position (actors/crew) and that favorite system to go your show instead of using the search bar.

4. And have a better system to had shows, i looked at that request page, before you talked about it. It looked like a list. I was thinking more in terms of letting us "add shows entering everything, from number of season, etc...

1. That stupid box (if that's what you want to call it) has been very useful for me. I am able to add cast now much faster instead of clicking all the time. You might not agree with me as you have barely contributed yet (I don't mind you for it), but if you start to contribute a lot, you'd know it is a very helpful ''stupid'' box and I am pretty sure many of us agree with me about that.

2. I personally have never been fan of TVrage. It was just an overkill of information, many options did not work anymore or a complete show was a total mess as they added main cast to many episodes as guest stars. You can't deny that! Although I must say that the system automatically detects the characters of that person in that specific show when you are about to add guest cast was a very nice option or to add crew to all episodes he/she was attending to in just one page.

3. Providing as much information as you can doesn't mean you are the best site out there. It is a personal opinion, but I'd rather prefer a nice organized lay-out rather than an abundance of information mixed between each other.

4. What's wrong with our system? All you do is requesting us to create a show and we create them for you. You ''as contributor or Member'' are able to add seasons, episodes, cast or crew to that specific show, although we usually use a bulk upload tool to upload all episodes, so it would be quicker and easier for you to add information, even tvrage was checking whether it was a real show after you added one, so there's basically no difference and in my experience I have waited days for it to be accepted by simply verifying if it was a real show giving all official links.

and Tonks, not that we do not listen to you or appreciate your suggestions you made, but you might want to change your attitude towards us. It usually helps you requesting or even asking us if you write in a friendly and polite way.

ThomasNL wrote:
2. I personally have never been fan of TVrage. It was just an overkill of information, many options did not work anymore or a complete show was a total mess as they added main cast to many episodes as guest stars. You can't deny that! Although I must say that the system automatically detects the characters of that person in that specific show when you are about to add guest cast was a very nice option or to add crew to all episodes he/she was attending to in just one page.

In fairness, a) TVRage was at the "mercy" of contributors. Just as TVMaze is. And I imagine IMDB, and TV.com, and most other contributor-based sites are to one degree or another. And b) I've seen shows at TVMaze where guest stars are listed as main cast. I haven't seen anything yet where main cast were added to episodes as guest stars at TVMaze... but I never saw it at TVRage, either. Did it happen? I don't doubt it. Any editor could have mucked things up and staff would never have known unless someone told us.

I suppose the question is, how does TVMaze prevent main cast from being added to episodes as guest stars? Because if actors were incorrectly credited at TVRage, that was a problem with the contributors rather than the system. And a lot of TVRage contributors are heading over here now. :)

I also have to admit, I'm curious to know what options didn't work. Both you and Juan have mentioned that. I only dealt with the data side, but I used it pretty extensively and I'm not aware of anything that didn't work that was supposed to work. From what I read, there were problems with the API side of things, but I'm pretty much ignorant on that.

There were some data-related options that were deliberately removed: some of them to prevent an overkill of information. I'm not sure if you're referring to those, or to something else, thus my curiosity.

Gadfly wrote:
In fairness, a) TVRage was at the "mercy" of contributors. Just as TVMaze is. And I imagine IMDB, and TV.com, and most other contributor-based sites are to one degree or another. And b) I've seen shows at TVMaze where guest stars are listed as main cast. I haven't seen anything yet where main cast were added to episodes as guest stars at TVMaze... but I never saw it at TVRage, either. Did it happen? I don't doubt it. Any editor could have mucked things up and staff would never have known unless someone told us....

Honestly, there's one show I've come across where quite a few guest/recurring stars are credited as the main cast. Was it like that at TVRage? Honestly, I don't know, it could have been.