Could you revisit your policy on airdate/network episode ?

The last 4 episodes for Rhoda may be added here, they just need to have an empty/unaired airdate. (As is the case on Wikipedia, BTW).

The Loch Ness episodes already use the (Australian) world premiere airdates.

Looks like you should study the policy in more detail before asking us to revisit it ;-)

david wrote:
The last 4 episodes for Rhoda may be added here, they just need to have an empty/unaired airdate. (As is the case on Wikipedia, BTW).

The Loch Ness episodes already use the (Australian) world premiere airdates.

Looks like you should study the policy in more detail before asking us to revisit it ;-)

Rhoda is an example. It affects everything, not just Rhoda.

You didn't understand what i meant. I said you should use world premiere as an option (it was implied when i mentioned tvrage and you knew perfectly well what i meant since i'm not the first asking for this), they should not be the dates appearing when you look at a show ordered/ commissioned by a specific network. Again, The Loch was a clear example because the only dates showing are its world premiere and under the wrong title too. (And i'm not even trying to get that one change, all other websites out there are showing correct info but yours.)

I knew exactly what i asked when I requested the rethinking. You should re-read me. I said exactly what you're showing. I'm not using your site for dates, because you show incorrect dates. And you make people make mistakes due to this and that is a pity because a lot of people aren't regular users. When it affects other websites, it is a problem. Apparently you don't see it that way.

Tonks wrote:
Rhoda is an example. It affects everything, not just Rhoda.

You didn't understand what i meant. I said you should use world premiere as an option (it was implied when i mentioned tvrage and you knew perfectly well what i meant since i'm not the first asking for this), they should not be the dates appearing when you look at a show ordered/ commissioned by a specific network. Again, The Loch was a clear example because the only dates showing are its world premiere and under the wrong title too. (And i'm not even trying to get that one change, all other websites out there are showing correct info but yours.)

I knew exactly what i asked when I requested the rethinking. You should re-read me. I said exactly what you're showing. I'm not using your site for dates, because you show incorrect dates. And you make people make mistakes due to this and that is a pity because a lot of people aren't regular users. When it affects other websites, it is a problem. Apparently you don't see it that way.

You are asking for alternate airdates which we have not implemented so far. We are only tracking the world premiere.

These pending features seem to fit, so give them a vote:

http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/128/support-for-premiere-airdates-in-different-countries
http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/173/alternate-episode-numbering-eg-dvd-order

JuanArango wrote:
You are asking for alternate airdates which we have not implemented so far. We are only tracking the world premiere.

Well yes and no, i was asking to revisit the policy and invert it (alternative airdate would include world premiere when airing would not be coming from the commissioning network).

You're making other websites using your api wrong as a consequence. Which is the only issue i have with the policy. If it affected only this website and its users, it wouldn't be a problem. People can be told not to trust airdates here because of that policy. But it propagates through the API and it makes sites like epguides erroneous and if my website were the reason for that, i would do my damnest to change it as soon I was made aware.

Either you apply the logic across board or you don't, you can't do a case by case basis - because this data is objective (not subjective) - and because canadian networks change their schedule all the time, you would have to switch primary every time an american network started to air their show first again. That is why World Premiere was a great feature on tvrage, it didn't compromise anything and it made every date correct. It's why alternative dates attached to countries is important on imdb, it still keeps the network which ordered something as primary.

This may be happening more and more with netflix and other streaming services that exist worldwide. We don't know yet how this will evolve.

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Aidan, already voted a while back, thank you for the reminder though. I voted for the features that i thought interesting or that would be great addition already and check that forum from time to time.

So i guess that will eventually be implemented but unless the policy changes about world premiere and what controls a show, adding alternative airdate would be nice, but not that much useful since that wouldn't change the fact that you propagate wrong info to others. Which was my only issue and why i requested (and i get it was already denied) to revisit it. Thanks for taking the time to answer, Juan.

Tonks wrote:
der though. I voted for the features that i thought interesting or that would be great addition already and check that forum from time to time.

So i guess that will eventually be implemented but unless the policy changes about world premiere and what controls a show, adding alternative airdate would be nice, but not that much useful since that wouldn't change the fact that you propagate wrong info to others. Which was my only issue and why i requested (and i get it was already denied) to revisit it. Thanks for taking the time to answer, Juan.

I understand the confusion, but about how many shows do we actually talk about, I seriously do not know the number, but it should not be more than a dozen, or am I wrong?

Actually it affects a lot of shows right now.

You have networks that decide to offer the pilot in advance through their site, the policy makes it mandatory to put that date in. Am i mistaken? Because this is what i'm seeing (Freeform, HBo, showtime, starz, FX etc)

It affects most american shows that air in Canada. You can follow their schedule. You can't use Canada airdates because that would be stupid and your policy is not applicable in that specific case. Which is why i'm saying because it's a subjective policy for something that is objective, if it airs somewhere else first, then you need to change everything. And you can't do that with american shows. See, for example, shows like NCIs tend to start airing one or two days earlier in Canada than in the US, then most times, it switches back and it's simultaneous. I'm using that example but because Canada relies heavily on american shows, you can see it on every canadian network and compare.

Definitely the Loch is, for now, a rarity, the fact that people are trying to change it all the time is an indicator that something doesn't work properly.

My take (and every other websites including wikipedia) is what should govern is which network ordered the show and from there everything is correct. You can then add a world premiere date through alternate dates like tvrage used to do - you could see during normal season a lot of shows airing first in Canada and it was noticed on the episode page very clearly. You should remember that, Juan. On Imdb, it is inconspicuous because release dates have their own page. But it's there.

For example : last kingdom, harlots and a few other shows have co-networks, on our site, we use where it's produced to decide which dates will govern but both networks show, both countries show on the main page and we add a note if for example a show aired first else where. The Last kingdom is a good example, i think it was ordered by BBC two, BBC America then came on board but they aired first. And then, for season 2, BBCA dropped, and netflix replaced it. And unfortunately, nor our site or tvmaze take those into account and that is not a rarity, it's just a recent example of what can happen. Harlots was renewed by Hulu alone, ITV has not yet said if they are on board but it was ITV which ordered it in the first place. So the dates that should be governing season 1 is itv encore and they started airing later than Hulu and for season 2 well it's Hulu alone for now.

And because it is not a policy applied objectively, but subjectively, it shows its limits and its bad qualities. The policy by itself is not wrong or bad. It is only a problem because your API is being used by third parties.

It was a request because your policy affects everyone / every site / every app puling info from the API. Nothing more. I hope this is clearer.

I split off the discussion about Loch Ness because it could be that it wasn't handled properly according to our policy.

You have networks that decide to offer the pilot in advance through their site, the policy makes it mandatory to put that date in. Am i mistaken? Because this is what i'm seeing (Freeform, HBo, showtime, starz, FX etc)

See http://www.tvmaze.com/faq/15/episodes, "season consistency".

My take (and every other websites including wikipedia) is what should govern is which network ordered the show and from there everything is correct.

See http://www.tvmaze.com/faq/15/episodes, "airdate owner".

And because it is not a policy applied objectively, but subjectively, it shows its limits and its bad qualities. The policy by itself is not wrong or bad. It is only a problem because your API is being used by third parties.

I still think you should read the episode policy again in detail, because either I don't understand what you're saying, or our policy is exactly in line with what you ask for.

Tonks wrote:
Actually it affects a lot of shows right now.

You have networks that decide to offer the pilot in advance through their site, the policy makes it mandatory to put that date in. Am i mistaken? Because this is what i'm seeing (Freeform, HBo, showtime, starz, FX etc)

It affects most american shows that air in Canada. You can follow their schedule. You can't use Canada airdates because that would be stupid and your policy is not applicable in that specific case. Which is why i'm saying because it's a subjective policy for something that is objective, if it airs somewhere else first, then you need to change everything. And you can't do that with american shows. See, for example, shows like NCIs tend to start airing one or two days earlier in Canada than in the US, then most times, it switches back and it's simultaneous. I'm using that example but because Canada relies heavily on american shows, you can see it on every canadian network and compare.

Could you give an example of: a) Broadcasted show which uses streaming airdates for some episodes; b) Purely US show, which uses Canadian airdates. Our policy, actually, allow neither of this.

Looks like there's no issue after all. Closing this thread, thanks for the fish :)