Consistency across Cast for Animated series

@TomSouthwell wrote:
I was told when I asked to just credit the titular characters. As when I started working on the guides the latest Spider-Man guide had numerous cast members added as stars. The seperation comes as normally the Stars are at the top of the list and then the rest of the cast is listed in alphabetical order of their last names. 

The example I mentioned above is taken from the latest Spider-Man. In it, I can't see a difference between main and guest stars.

I haven't got as far as New Batman Adventures yet. But have been adding the credits to Batman The Animated Series using the distinction in the credits. Surely for New Batman, If Batman/Robin and the episode specific characters are listed on a seperate Credit screen, then those are the episode stars? 

Probably. But then you'll end up having a lot of one-episode appearances listed in the main cast. Which is fine by me, by the way, but it would be exactly like in The Simpsons.

I did once poise the question of how we'd even begin crediting cast for Robot Chicken, since each episode features different characters, however some characters are regular, @JuanArango said at the time to just add the characters that do reoccur as show stars. 

The shows where each episode features different characters probably should be treated like an anthology, and don't have the main cast at all, only guest stars in each episode.

@tnt wrote:
The example I mentioned above is taken from the latest Spider-Man. In it, I can't see a difference between main and guest stars.

If you watch various episodes you'll see Robbie Daymond is always listed at the top of the list and then the list of other characters underneath is in alphabetical order of their last names. Its the same with any other recent marvel animation. 

Probably. But then you'll end up having a lot of one-episode appearances listed in the main cast. Which is fine by me, by the way, but it would be exactly like in The Simpsons.

I'm happy to do it either way. I've already done the same with the animated Superman 90s series and have started with the Batman 90s animated series as a couple of characters appear only as stars even if they make sporadic appearances. 

The shows where each episode features different characters probably should be treated like an anthology, and don't have the main cast at all, only guest stars in each episode.

Even if there is a clear distinction between a main cast member and a guest cast member? 

I just realised the image provided doesn't show what I'm saying for Marvel. Maybe this was with the other series. Regardless Robbie is always listed at the top. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
 

Even if there is a clear distinction between a main cast member and a guest cast member? 

No, of course not. The shows which have a clear distinction between main and guest stars should be edited in line with the current policy. They are not part of the problem.

@tnt wrote:
No, of course not. The shows which have a clear distinction between main and guest stars should be edited in line with the current policy. They are not part of the problem.

So how would we approach that with Robot Chicken, their is starring actors but not particularly starring characters. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
So how would we approach that with Robot Chicken, their is starring actors but not particularly starring characters. 

How should I know?)) This show obviously doesn't have a clear distinction between main and guest cast, because it credits only actors, not characters. The way I see it, we have exactly 2 viable options: 1) add all characters voiced by the stars as main; 2) add only the most recurring character(s) for each of the voice stars as main. 

@tnt wrote:
How should I know?)) This show obviously doesn't have a clear distinction between main and guest cast, because it credits only actors, not characters. The way I see it, we have exactly 2 viable options: 1) add all characters voiced by the stars as main; 2) add only the most recurring character(s) for each of the voice stars as main. 

That's why I'm saying there should be something in the policy for these instances around animated shows with unclear distinctions. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
That's why I'm saying there should be something in the policy for these instances around animated shows with unclear distinctions. 

For example what?
Yeah, we definitely could say something. Will it help though, or just will make things even more confusing?

Let's assume we'll say: "Use the appearance count" because it is the only criteria that's objective and does not depend on the user's opinion (as opposed to the character's significance, for example). First of all, where are you gonna get the number of appearances? You gonna sit before your screen with the pen and paper and count the appearances for each character before actually adding them to TVmaze? Look at IMDb? Wiki? Then, how would you define, how many appearances the character needs to make to be considered main? What units are you gonna use for the measurement, the actual number of appearances? Percentage of episode count? Or maybe it just needs to have more appearances than the other characters? Ok, how much more? In which units? Five more or five times more?

And even if somehow it will work for the long-running show, what are you gonna do with the show which is just started? Wait for the 5-10-20 episodes to broadcast? Re-edit it after every other episode? Wait for the season to end?

Don't get me wrong, I also don't mind having every answer in the policy. But I'm just being realistic.

@tnt wrote:
For example what?
Yeah, we definitely could say something. Will it help though, or just will make things even more confusing?

Let's assume we'll say: "Use the appearance count" because it is the only criteria that's objective and does not depend on the user's opinion (as opposed to the character's significance, for example). First of all, where are you gonna get the number of appearances? You gonna sit before your screen with the pen and paper and count the appearances for each character before actually adding them to TVmaze? Look at IMDb? Wiki? Then, how would you define, how many appearances the character needs to make to be considered main? What units are you gonna use for the measurement, the actual number of appearances? Percentage of episode count? Or maybe it just needs to have more appearances than the other characters? Ok, how much more? In which units? Five more or five times more?

And even if somehow it will work for the long-running show, what are you gonna do with the show which is just started? Wait for the 5-10-20 episodes to broadcast? Re-edit it after every other episode? Wait for the season to end?

Don't get me wrong, I also don't mind having every answer in the policy. But I'm just being realistic.

And obviously none of those solutions sound realistic :-D. I'd say something generic would cover all bases, but surely consulting the forum for grey areas  should cover that and it hasn't done already.

@tnt wrote:
Do we need them all?

Defines how? The show does not have opening credits for the cast, does it? As for the Simpsons family, according to FOX it also includes Patty, Selma and Grampa https://web.archive.org/web/20000511004024/http://thesimpsons.com/frameset.html
The ending credits, however, include six actors as starring: Castellaneta, Kavner, Cartwright, Smith, Shearer, and Azaria (starting season 3). So in any case, at least one character from each of the actors should be listed in the main cast section.

Are they though?

Family Guy:
Voice Cast: Seth MacFarlane as Peter, Stewie and Brian; Alex Borstein as Lois; Seth Green as Chris; Mila Kunis as Meg.

Bob's Burgers:
Voice Cast: H. Jon Benjamin as Bob; Dan Mintz as Tina; Eugene Mirman as Gene; John Roberts as Linda; Kristen Schaal as Louise

Am I fine moving any actors that aren't those six to guest stars instead of show stars as a way of starting to sort this out for 'The Simpsons'?

A number of characters would also need changing here according to that press release: https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/84/family-guy/cast

And Teddy removing from the main characters of 'Bob's Burgers'?

@TomSouthwell wrote:
Am I fine moving any actors that aren't those six to guest stars instead of show stars as a way of starting to sort this out for 'The Simpsons'?

I suppose so, yes. For the first two seasons, however, they were "those five", and Hank Azaria joined them only in season 3.

A number of characters would also need changing here according to that press release: https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/84/family-guy/cast

All these shows have one thing in common: they have separate "Starring" and "Also Starring" on-screen credits. Here's what I propose: considering that they do not have "Guest" credits (except "Special Guest") we could move all "Also Starring" actors to guest cast, and leave in the main cast only "Starring" actors, with the characters specified on-screen (Bob's Burgers) or listed in the "Cast" section of press releases (Simpsons, Family Guy). The rest of the characters voiced by "Starring" actors should be also moved to the guest cast.

And Teddy removing from the main characters of 'Bob's Burgers'?

 From the first 3 seasons only. From season 4 Larry Murphy as Teddy is credited as "Starring".

@tnt wrote:
I suppose so, yes. For the first two seasons, however, they were "those five", and Hank Azaria joined them only in season 3.

All these shows have one thing in common: they have separate "Starring" and "Also Starring" on-screen credits. Here's what I propose: considering that they do not have "Guest" credits (except "Special Guest") we could move all "Also Starring" actors to guest cast, and leave in the main cast only "Starring" actors, with the characters specified on-screen (Bob's Burgers) or listed in the "Cast" section of press releases (Simpsons, Family Guy). The rest of the characters voiced by "Starring" actors should be also moved to the guest cast.

 From the first 3 seasons only. From season 4 Larry Murphy as Teddy is credited as "Starring".

Brilliant. I'll start working on these guides soon. Should we be looking at any of the other guides mentioned in this thread thus far?

@TomSouthwell wrote:
Brilliant. I'll start working on these guides soon. Should we be looking at any of the other guides mentioned in this thread thus far?

I think so. To be honest, I'm not watching any animated shows (except Star Wars universe), so I can't make a proper damage assessment :) But if you know other incorrect listings, we can look at them.

But before you start making changes, I'd like to know if @JuanArango @Thomas and @gazza911 have any thoughts about my proposal.

@tnt wrote:
I think so. To be honest, I'm not watching any animated shows (except Star Wars universe), so I can't make a proper damage assessment :) But if you know other incorrect listings, we can look at them.

But before you start making changes, I'd like to know if @JuanArango @Thomas and @gazza911 have any thoughts about my proposal.

I won't start moving anything until everyone's had a say.

This entire problem is the reason why I only ever used press releases that were un-ambigious to fill out cast.

I just didn't add cast otherwise as you can't easily tell what it should be.

It's not a solution, but otherwise everything is very subjective.

@tnt wrote:
I think so. To be honest, I'm not watching any animated shows (except Star Wars universe), so I can't make a proper damage assessment :) But if you know other incorrect listings, we can look at them.

But before you start making changes, I'd like to know if @JuanArango @Thomas and @gazza911 have any thoughts about my proposal.

I am with you, sounds good :)