Agree Brit ... must say , settled in quite nicely with this Ep. of Van der Valk , hope it's a on going thing.
@BritMystery ... this group is a little past their prime to be rolling out of bed (or sprawled out on the deck of the boat) with serious hangovers to run to a murder scene.
Exactly , thought the same thing , especially with the guy who plays the coroner ... a little old ta be sprawled out on the deck like a college kid .
Hi all, I have just binged these past few episodes of Unforgotten (Sunny with the best line of the episode ' You Win ' ) if you haven't seen this one...stop reading now!!
So, I think I have a few theories, but still not sure how some fit into the life and times of Precious. I'm glad that they are on different course with Sunny and Jess, they could be a great duo - if she really puts her personal life on the back burner and starts working as part of the team.
French/Polish Karol was the social worker in charge of Precious, and it's now known that something went on between the two (or three, or four) of them. If that was her son, and he did see everything, then Karol and PingPong were there in the house at about the same time? Which could be why Karol hightailed it outta dodge. I don't think Karol is the killer, mainly because I don't think he would have had time to drywall her into the fireplace??
PingPong admits to a connection to the son, but when the two of them were at the table he said 'who are you'. For sure PingPong is involved, that wife of his knows something about what happened at that house too. She had a pretty good idea who he called, but didn't want to know for sure as she didn't check the last number he called.
In the zooms people that Sunny contacted, the son was described as violent, out of control, and a killer instinct. This is not how this young man is treating his methhead girl friend - or the fella that was in bed with her when he got home? He was more caring and calm?? So I'm leaning towards that's not the son, but someone who was in the house and perhaps knew the son and his life in the cult??
The violent Mom is still a bit of a mystery, not sure if she would have killed and disposed of the daughter though. That doesn't feel right to me. But, now there's talk of her high priced lawyer, so she was involved with someone powerful, which is likely the father. How this connects I have no clue!! LOL
' You Win ' ... defining moment appara . I thought , now the reset begins here. Her troubles went from bad to worse in this ep. Starting to see how messed up that family is . Drug addiction has destroyed them all. That social worker guy talking about selling 8 watches in his position . Seems kind of odd ... is he using watches as a code word for drugs . Just a thought , will see if anything comes of it. Lord Ping Pong seems to be more and more being backed into a corner . What was a high and mighty Lord doing in a drug infested flop house the night Precious was killed . Felt a little sorry for the son when Sunny was viewing the zoom meetings with the social workers . He really did have a bad childhood , so who could blame him how he turned out . When he smacked Lord Ping Pong I was hoping he would hit him again. Have a dislike for ol' Pong , hiding behind a cloak of respectability which is starting to become obvious is just a front. Good ta hear from ya appara .
Hi All!
I am starting to wonder if we are not going to be a bit disappointed with the big reveal of the murderer. At this late date, we still do not have any concrete information about what happened to Precious on that fateful day. None. They are all still knee deep in "it", whatever it is.
We have a body in a fireplace, four people who are involved in her life at that time; one, her son, who may have seen it happen - or saw something involving Lord Ping Pong... but maybe it wasn't her murder. The son said "I saw what you did", or something to that effect, so far he never said he (Lord Ping Pong) murdered her and when talking to Sunny and Jess he implicated the cult leader as the possible murderer. A person we have only heard about, not seen.
Remember, Lord P. called someone on the phone - as you point out Appara, with the wife being suspicious as if she has some knowledge of who it was on the other end - or what her husband was referring to, but walking away, not really wanting to know. Red flag there. He said to the person on the other end "what did you do"? I'm thinking he was talking to either the killer or the person who put her body in the fireplace to get rid of the evidence. This is where it becomes iffy for me because that makes it look like he has knowledge of her death, but it was at someone else's hand. I am just hoping that they don't do a last minute "look who pops up in to the picture" reveal with us all squinting an eye saying "what"!?
Where does Karol fit in to all this, we sill don't have enough info which makes me wonder why. He ran from something. For a fleeting moment I thought he could be on the other side of the phone with Lord P., but no, I don't think so. He either saw or participated in something, that's all we know.
Appara, your point about him not being around to hide the body is a good one, he resigned and left the UK it seems. So it was someone else who did this - or two people are involved.
Hey, you know what, we haven't focused on the politician that Lord P. helped in his career. He has been hanging to the sideline... as we saw, Lord P. feels he owes him. What is their backstory? Could we be finding out more about that (and him) next episode. Although, pretty late in the game to throw a curve ball like that at us.
Gotta say, Reset is my new word of the week! We are now rebooting. 😏. Good of Sunny to take the first step, something had to happen because, as we all realize, things couldn't go on as they were.
It seems the writers seem to want Sunny's sidekick to have a personal life in turmoil. This is the MO that they have carried on from Cassie. Remember Cassie's messy life with all the drama about her father's girlfriend and later wife. We go from that to a new lead with a husband that walks out on her two minutes (no, it was really forty) before she walks in to a new job - and we now find out he slept with her sister to boot! Awful to be sure. Yes, she "won" the person carrying around the most baggage. Great line and ice breaker from Sunny.
TBC...
"Felt a little sorry for the son when Sunny was viewing the zoom meetings with the social workers. He really did have a bad childhood , so who could blame him how he turned out."
Solar, that scene hurt my heart. If ever there was question that nurture and environment are fundamental to who we grow in to as humans that story proves it. Those were neighbors as well who Sunny spoke to; and a man who fostered and wanted to adopt the son at thirteen. He was a sweet boy neglected by his mother by all accounts - until after he was given back to her at thirteen (at her insistence). For the benefit check the foster father assumed... and he was correct, because that child continued to be neglected and abused after he was sent back to her. The last man interviewed said he could see him murdering someone - that hit like a ton of bricks - you could see and hear how it all came to his statement. That wasn't who he was at thirteen. And, I truly do not believe he could kill anyone. He is not that person in his soul.
The trauma he has from his upbringing is palpable - what he endured from the cult leader was only touched on, because the reality of what he went through is too much for this show to explicitly say. I gulped hard when he started to discuss it and thankful that we did not have to hear it in detail.
Heartbreaking. I have little sympathy for Precious at this point because she continued the cycle and made no attempt to make life any better for her son than she had. She had a horrid mother and she was a horrid mother to her son. The system failed him, reports were made regarding his neglect, nothing done until he was a young teen, finally he found someone who cared about him and what do they do - give him back to his drug addicted, crack-head mother. Sad doesn't even begin to describe that situation.
As Appara said, you could still see his ability to care about others in him in the way he takes care of his girlfriend. Even the fact that he popped old Lord Ping Pong for what he did to his mother tells you he still cares for her on some level.
I am not forgiving him for hurting others as he lives a life of theft and violence to support his girlfriend's drug habit. I question how addicted he is himself as he made the transition to jail (without drugs) too easily. An addicted person would be going through some level of withdrawal - we saw none of that (unless the writers forgot that he was supposed to be a drug addict!?).
I am at a loss as to what is happening with Precious' mother. I am sorry, but she is just a waste. I have not seen her display one iota of decency on any front. I too, Appara can't quite get to a place where I think she killed her daughter. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be her. We certainly have some very unlikable characters to deal with this season.
Solar, those actually were watches Karol was talking about. He took them from a box he opened from work. What a screw-up this guy is, he just keeps getting himself deeper and deeper in trouble.
He is trying to get a down payment for a house with his girlfriend and her children, so he took very expensive, high-end watches from a shipment to sell for the cash. Those watches were worth about 80,000 euros he said (he was willing to unload them for 40,000). Designer watches have big price tags - I bet they are a hot ticket on the black market. Then he tries to bring them back before the police were called in (that supervisor/coworker tried to save him) but he waited too long and the police got there before him.
They are going to find out he stole them and everything is going to come crumbling down around him. I can't even feel sorry for him because he walked himself in to this one. He has his own agenda, he won't listen to his girlfriend who is trying to explain that this is not the time for another child, nor a house they can't afford, as she has an uphill legal battle brewing with her obnoxious ex...but no, no resetting here, let's make the situation worst by stealing goods from work! I am shaking my head as I write this. People can be their own worst enemy.
And, I feel for Sal. I said it in my comment from the last episode - even in the throes of grief, you need to focus on the living. I didn't realize at first when she was talking about competing with someone that she meant Cassie - all of a sudden it hit me. Impossible to compete with the love of someone who has passed on. If Sunny doesn't wake up soon, I fear he will lose her.
Brit .. kind of a puzzle the way the son reacted when he found his girl friend with another guy. No emotion at all.
I question how addicted he is himself as he made the transition to jail (without drugs) too easily. An addicted person would be going through some level of withdrawal - we saw none of that
Yeah, he doesn't look like an addict , where his girl friend does .
@solar wrote:
Brit .. kind of a puzzle the way the son reacted when he found his girl friend with another guy. No emotion at all.
I question how addicted he is himself as he made the transition to jail (without drugs) too easily. An addicted person would be going through some level of withdrawal - we saw none of that
Yeah, he doesn't look like an addict , where his girl friend does .
I was actually surprised by his response myself, Solar, I expected a more violent one. The calm and understanding way he dealt with the situation speaks volumes about him. She's a drug addict who can't take care of herself and needs her daily stash. Out of necessity she goes to whom she can to get what she needs. He understands that and doesn't penalize her for it. He cares about her and takes on the role of (her) provider and protector. His own terrible past - where he was never protected himself - is what I feel feeds this response, he has compassion for another who is vulnerable like he was.
We have lost one of the greats, Michael Gambon. Whomever the character was - in any series or movie he acted in, he was always the one to watch. There wasn't a role that he played that did not mesmerize the audience. Loved him in so many things. He will be so missed.
Seen him for years Brit ... 82. RIP .
Van Der Valk... Good episode. The goth guy was a little too over the top - a bit too much of a caricature, otherwise a well rounded story. Almost feel like I should go back and rewatch the first part again, but they did go over the previous details enough for me to remember what happened in the beginning.
I wasn't surprised by the "who done it", but again, it was a thought that went in to my head - and then back out again - I never quite committed to it. I do think they should have mentioned the circumstances with her partner before the ninth hour to have been totally fair to us, but maybe it was mentioned and I forgot about it.
Next episode seems to be really out there. I hope not too much so; this season has been pretty good up to now and I don't want to see the series go off the deep end with the last story.
Yes Brit .... That goth guy , a creepy looking character for sure but that coroner Hendrik and his taste for loud , irritating music in his lab ..... is the boat deck sprawler trying to show us how young at heart he is ? Will watch him closely in next ep.
Hands up here in New Jersey to Appara! Girl, you got it! You thought that the "son" was not "the son" and you were spot on. Kudo's to you, because everything this season regarding this story, has escaped me.🙄 I have been wrong on most of the main characters... Karol, Hume, " the son". At this point, I am saying nothing regarding where this all is going - I am just going to take the rest of it in. This last episode you could have knocked me over with a feather.
The one thing which really stood out was how the cycle of dysfunction in people (and families) keeps continuing to destroy lives. It takes an incredibly strong person to break that cycle and reach beyond it for the next generation.
Sorry to see Sonny and Sal in the place they are. I don't see them coming back from this, but who knows, I have been wrong on everything else.
Solar, I am dying to hear what you have to say about all this!
FYI... have you heard "True Detective" is coming back for a third season. This series has always been a tough watch for me, but I become so inthralled by the story (and the acting) that it keeps me going on even when it is too much. I find myself often watching with a hand covering one eye - like I am shielding myself from what I am seeing on the screen - because "out there" this series has always been. I expect more of the same this season and it is not stopping me, I am planning on going back in. It is just too good to be missed - even when you are watching while squinting with one eye opened. 😊
For those of you with Netflix, I have a movie recommendation - Wind River. I have watched it twice and it remained as good the second watch as the first - may be better (although I did FF over one scene(s) as seeing it once was enough for me). It is atmospheric in its' location, which is so integral to the story, that it is a character in and of itself. The photography and camera work are exceptional.
This is a compelling mystery, an edge of your seat investigation that holds your attention throughout. It starts slow, gives you time to absorb the environment and the crime, but it then starts to heat up and when it does - bam, things move.
The performances from both leads, Jeremy Renner (Cory Lambert) and Elizabeth Olsen (Jane Banner) are so on tract, so well done, that I can't imagine anyone else in their roles. Olsen plays an FBI agent way in over her head - and she knows it - who has to literally pull herself up from her bootstraps and push herself beyond her own capabilities to do the right thing. She is so believable in the part, she didn't over play it, she didn't underplay it, she got it on-point.
Jeremy Renner is the wildlife officer she enlists to help her in her investigation. His main duty as WO is to control the prey animals in the area (they are out in some God-forbidden place in Wyoming). What we come to understand quite quickly is his skills in tracking, and knowledge of the area, make him her best (if not only) partner if she is ever going to solve this crime.
The chemistry between Renner and Olsen is what really makes everything click. They are good together.
Please do not be upset by the opening scene as we first come upon him doing his job - I did some research and no animals were hurt, or put in danger, in the production of the movie. If anyone needs it, I will post a link to the article that speaks to this and explains how this scene was done.
One of the most important things is that the movie makes a strong statement that brings to light a long standing injustice. I appreciate that it does this in such a direct way - it does not mince words, ever.
Wind River won an award for Best Director at the Cannes Film Festival in 2017.
Yeah Brit .. this is getting to be a real brain twister . this Karol ( with the secret camera ) guy ... not sure ..still .. how he fits into all this . Sunny and Jess seem ta be getting along better after the ' reset ' ... Jess seems ta be pitching in more , and that 's good ta see. Sooooo .... Joseph Bell is really Jay Royce ... half brother of the real Joseph Bell who was being dug up in the very last scenes of last ep. Who put him in the back garden as flower food ?? .. Jay Royce is really the son of Precious and Eric Royce . What I'm curious about is watching Lord Pong squirm . He seems ta be more and more in a panic to keep under wraps what ever is hidden beneath the rocks. His line to Joseph Bell of Who are you ? now starts ta make sense . I thought Joseph Bell aka Jay Royce was his son but Noooo I don't think he is now . That cop questioning the security guard brought in a whole new head scratcher when he said to her .... I was told to be quiet about what SHE said when SHE came in ' I want to speak to my dad , Tony Hume ' . so a DAUGHTER enters the pitcher . Lord Ping Pong is off to Gatwick , what's he up to ?? My head hurts .. reaching for aspirin. lol
@solar wrote:
Yeah Brit .. this is getting to be a real brain twister . this Karol ( with the secret camera ) guy ... not sure ..still .. how he fits into all this . Sunny and Jess seem ta be getting along better after the ' reset ' ... Jess seems ta be pitching in more , and that 's good ta see. Sooooo .... Joseph Bell is really Jay Royce ... half brother of the real Joseph Bell who was being dug up in the very last scenes of last ep. Who put him in the back garden as flower food ?? .. Jay Royce is really the son of Precious and Eric Royce . What I'm curious about is watching Lord Pong squirm . He seems ta be more and more in a panic to keep under wraps what ever is hidden beneath the rocks. His line to Joseph Bell of Who are you ? now starts ta make sense . I thought Joseph Bell aka Jay Royce was his son but Noooo I don't think he is now . That cop questioning the security guard brought in a whole new head scratcher when he said to her .... I was told to be quiet about what SHE said when SHE came in ' I want to speak to my dad , Tony Hume ' . so a DAUGHTER enters the pitcher . Lord Ping Pong is off to Gatwick , what's he up to ?? My head hurts .. reaching for aspirin. lol
My head hurts .. reaching for aspirin.
I know! Excellent summary of the episode, Solar. I needed that. I spent more time watching and saying "what?! what?!" - this went in a totally different direction than I was assuming.
His line to Joseph Bell of Who are you ? Now starts ta make sense.
Yes! It was right there for us to see and hear. I should have focused more on that, I let it fly over me.
Who put him in the back garden as flower food ?? ..
So now we have two murders, not one - and only one more episode to go. I feel like we may need more time, we will see how they do wrapping this all up, hopefully they won't rush it with a two minute summary at the end.
' I want to speak to my dad, Tony Hume' . so a DAUGHTER enters the picture.
This was a real twist. Now, under what circumstances did this happen? Precious' mother was very young when she got pregnant - she was living at home - we heard the horror of what her family did to her. How did she meet Hume at that time in his and her life?? That's got to be a whole other story on to itself.
Karol turned out to have more issues that I ever supposed. Of all the characters he has surprised me the most. He kept pushing the girlfriend with the two young daughters to move the relationship to a more permanent level with his insistence about purchasing a house together - and what do we come to find out, he should be no where near those girls and their mother. It actually was good that all this came to light (for her) when it did.
At this point, after hearing about his camera activity and fact that he stole those watches from work, who knows what he may have done regarding this sordid story. Precious was trying to blackmail him with the photos she found on his computer. I guess that is why he high-tailed it to France so quickly.
Sordid is the operative word here - with each layer they pull away, it gets worst.
Happy Thanksgiving, Solar and Appara!
Actually quite content with how the story wrapped up - I won't go as far as to say poetic justice, but justice was served.
It was Precious' mother, not Precious, who was Hume's daughter! 🥴 I had gotten confused on that too! Unfortunately, given what we know of Hume I had thought that Hume had raped her - I didn't want to say that in my previous comment because I felt I was just thinking the worst about every situation in this story and needed to allow for the possibility that that wasn't the case, but on that, I was right.
Brings us back to the beginning when we see Hume go off on his grandson (I am assuming because of age) regarding a sexual assault allegation - we never got the full details.
The privilege continues down the generations, (ya heard what Joseph Bell/Jay Royce told S & J, that Hume said to his brother - the man thought he was untouchable). Yet now, this young man is going to be known as the grandson of a rapist and murderer (of his own great grandson). This will follow the family for years to come - certainly takes the shine off the privilege.
The Jess saga with the husband...now he didn't do it and all is well !?!? The mother 's comments were basically let it slide and move on - back to happy families. I get the difficult situation that Jess is in because of her boys, but wow, I can't even believe they went down that road with a new character and then walked away from it in the end. What's next - will we see them all smiles celebrating their anniversary in the opening of the next season 🙄.
Have to say, I am glad this story and season has come to a close - I have had enough of this one.
Happy Thanksgiving, Solar and Appara!
Thanks Brit .... quiet day . Viewed this ep. this afternoon .... not quite sure what I saw .... just when I think it's all wrapped up with ol' Hume confessing to murder .... wait .. he did confess didn't he ??????? thought the best moment was Jess doin' the slow clap and tellin' ol' Pong he was just tryin' to improve his Wiki page THEN came that scene where Jay Royce meets his grandma ... touching ... and he tells her that he lied ( I persume he just wanted to make things difficult for old Hume by tying him into the murder of Joseph Bell ) but why did ol' Pong confess to it. All very strange. Looks like Jess's home trouble turn out to be a big misunderstanding .... like a balloon with the air slowly coming out. Lame . Shaking my head and waiting for next weeks World on Fire / Annika .
Have to say, I am glad this story and season has come to a close - I have had enough of this one.
Have ta say I agree.
Solar, it is John Nettles eightieth birthday today! Can't quite get my head around that. Where does the time go?!
Time is a thief Brit ..... John Nettles at 80 . see him every Sat. as I am on the Tom Barnaby / Jones section of Midsomer. A few weeks ago as I was driving home from Home Depot , Men at Work's Down Under came on the radio ... always loved this song so I cranked up the radio and sang along , windows up so I didn't frighten anybody. lol Always wondered how the young can listen to Rap when they got stuff like this . When I got home , still thinking about this song , I wondered , How long has this song been out ? so I got on Google. Released in 1981 on their first album ' Business as Usual '. ...... 1981 ...... Brit that's 42 YEARS AGO . Time is a Thief .
Found the latest Van der Valk was lack luster . Hopefully , they keep makin' them . can't figure out that coroner , Hendrick . Showed him in a bar scene having the time of his life . Easy ta spot , the only gray head in the place . Likes ta show how young he is ( or that should be , young at heart . )
@solar wrote:
Time is a thief Brit ..... John Nettles at 80 . see him every Sat. as I am on the Tom Barnaby / Jones section of Midsomer. A few weeks ago as I was driving home from Home Depot , Men at Work's Down Under came on the radio ... always loved this song so I cranked up the radio and sang along , windows up so I didn't frighten anybody. lol Always wondered how the young can listen to Rap when they got stuff like this . When I got home , still thinking about this song , I wondered , How long has this song been out ? so I got on Google. Released in 1981 on their first album ' Business as Usual '. ...... 1981 ...... Brit that's 42 YEARS AGO . Time is a Thief .Found the latest Van der Valk was lack luster . Hopefully , they keep makin' them . can't figure out that coroner , Hendrick . Showed him in a bar scene having the time of his life . Easy ta spot , the only gray head in the place . Likes ta show how young he is ( or that should be , young at heart . )
I am still in my "Bergerac" rewatch, and they are re-airing the first seasons of "Midsomer" on my local PBS stations - I stop and watch when I see one playing, so I am seeing a young John all the time and then to hear its' his eightieth birthday! 😯 Time is a thief, Solar. I find myself looking back so much more now - I can't believe I am the age I am. Yes, better than the alternative, but I really wish time moved a bit slower. Seemed to when I was younger, now the days feel like they are flying by. I keep telling the Hubs that we must go and do, we are pass the point where we can say "someday".
I have read that John is willing to do a cameo in the new upcoming "Bergerac" reboot - I would love that, but still no info on if they started production as yet.
And, do you realize that this is our seventeenth Mystery season together?! That alone is a stunner.
The second part of "Van Der Valk" was better than the first. I thought the ending was very nicely done. This was not my favorite story of the season I will say, at least the first part, which was a bit too over the top in every way. I don't know how Hendrick functions with all the partying and drinking - they have pushed the character in to a caricature, it just doesn't come off given his supposed age.
I have come to like Marc Warren more and more in the role. The series has really grown on me and I am looking forward to a new season (hopefully) next year.
