Doctor who Christmas special - not displaying as next episode

Gadfly wrote:
If they're "special" enough to list, then they're special enough to list where people can find them. If not... why bother having them here? What's the benefit of having a 6-minute preview up, if nobody wants to see it at TVMaze? And if people do want to see it here... why list it way down at the bottom where it's practically invisible?

Right, I guess that's another way to deal with it. :)

So we have a few different options so far:

A) Always add episodes that are part of the season plot/arcs as regular episode instead of a special. All other cases would still be added as special and shown separately in the episode list/etc.

B) Create sub-classifications of specials, to distinguish "significant specials" from "insignificant specials". The significant specials would not have an episode number, but they would show up in the episode list along with the rest of the season's episodes/watchlist/etc. Insignificant specials would be treated like all specials are now: relatively hidden.

C) Narrow down the definition of what can be added as special, then proceed to treat specials as if they were a regular episode in the episode list/watchlist/etc. This would mean that only "significant" or damn-near significant specials can stay and a large part of currently added specials have to be deleted.

Any more?

david wrote:
A) Always add episodes that are part of the season plot/arcs as regular episode instead of a special. All other cases would still be added as special and shown separately in the episode list/etc.

Im my opinion a special should never have an episode number, the networks also do not give them one.

cheers
Juan

david wrote:
Right, I guess that's another way to deal with it. :)
So we have a few different options so far:
A) Always add episodes that are part of the season plot/arcs as regular episode instead of a special. All other cases would still be added as special and shown separately in the episode list/etc.
B) Create sub-classifications of specials, to distinguish "significant specials" from "insignificant specials". The significant specials would not have an episode number, but they would show up in the episode list along with the rest of the season's episodes/watchlist/etc. Insignificant specials would be treated like all specials are now: relatively hidden.
C) Narrow down the definition of what can be added as special, then proceed to treat specials as if they were a regular episode in the episode list/watchlist/etc. This would mean that only "significant" or damn-near significant specials can stay and a large part of currently added specials have to be deleted.
Any more?

I think we should do both B (like I suggested) and C

I think it's necessary that we narrow down the definition of what can be added as specials, but keep the categorization in mind :-)

Specials are specials to me and therefore should not be added to any season and do not acquire an episode number at all. I am perfectly fine with the way it is right now.

Thomas wrote:
Specials are specials to me and therefore should not be added to any season and do not acquire an episode number at all. I am perfectly fine with the way it is right now.

I also think it's odd to give them an episode number, but I think that they should be shown within the episode list of the specific season if they're like a normal episode (Christmas/Halloween/... specials)

I'm not sure how it's possible to put specials into the regular episode list AND give them a number without things getting messy. We certainly don't want to offset regular episode numbers, and introducing some sort of "specials number" nomenclature with letters or something seems weird too.

srob650 wrote:
I'm not sure how it's possible to put specials into the regular episode list AND give them a number without things getting messy. We certainly don't want to offset regular episode numbers, and introducing some sort of "specials number" nomenclature with letters or something seems weird too.

I agree 100% :)

With Plex, XBMC, and Kodi all using the S00Exx standard for specials I'm really not sure why we're trying to re-invent the wheel here :p

Best solution in my eyes is use S00Exx but have them sort in episode list by airdate so you can see them in context of when they aired.

srob650 wrote:
With Plex, XBMC, and Kodi all using the S00Exx standard for specials I'm really not sure why we're trying to re-invent the wheel here :p
Best solution in my eyes is use S00Exx but have them sort in episode list by airdate so you can see them in context of when they aired.

I'm not with that idea.

I understand why you would go for the S00Exx "standard", but that would suggest that it's part of Season 0, which doesn't exist really and is incorrect.
So not having a episode number is the best way I think.
And having the season number like the season it's from.

And if they have the right category, they can be added to the episode list, just like a normal episode.
But if they have for instance the category of "sneak peak" or whatever, it can be listed somewhere else (I personally don't care if it's at the bottom of the page, but I understand that some people would like it to be more in the neighbourhood of the season it's from).

david wrote:
Right, I guess that's another way to deal with it. :)
So we have a few different options so far:
A) Always add episodes that are part of the season plot/arcs as regular episode instead of a special. All other cases would still be added as special and shown separately in the episode list/etc.
B) Create sub-classifications of specials, to distinguish "significant specials" from "insignificant specials". The significant specials would not have an episode number, but they would show up in the episode list along with the rest of the season's episodes/watchlist/etc. Insignificant specials would be treated like all specials are now: relatively hidden.
C) Narrow down the definition of what can be added as special, then proceed to treat specials as if they were a regular episode in the episode list/watchlist/etc. This would mean that only "significant" or damn-near significant specials can stay and a large part of currently added specials have to be deleted.
Any more?

A, with the provision that they are shown concurrently rather than separately.

On the episode list, you could make Specials a different font color, add (Special) at the end of the title, exclude the episode number (if they have one), etc. But when they air on the same day as a regular episode, and sometimes back-to-back with a regular episode, it doesn't seem to make much sense to blast them off to some other chronologically-later section of the page.

JuanArango wrote:
Im my opinion a special should never have an episode number, the networks also do not give them one.
cheers
Juan

Sometimes networks give them numbers, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes they give them an episode number in one place, and omit them in another. For instance, if the BBC places a 13-episode order for the current season, but airs 12 regular episodes and a Christmas Special, are they "numbering" the Special #13 or not? Syfy did that with Warehouse 13 and Eureka and Haven. They'd put in a 13-episode order, but then the last episode would air months later after the "season" had officially ended.

For the most part, network episode numbering is just a way to organize the episodes in order. Since there's no one consistent way that every network in the world does it, the best you can hope for is to do it consistently at TVMaze. If you want to exclude Specials from numbering, fine. But it's no more "official" for every network than if you include them.

Gadfly wrote:

A, with the provision that they are shown concurrently rather than separately.
On the episode list, you could make Specials a different font color, add (Special) at the end of the title, exclude the episode number (if they have one), etc. But when they air on the same day as a regular episode, and sometimes back-to-back with a regular episode, it doesn't seem to make much sense to blast them off to some other chronologically-later section of the page.

I definitely disagree with the idea of modifying the title of an episode for any reason. Episode information should not be altered.

Putting something at the end of a title isn't modifying it, IMO, as long as it's clear it's not part of the title and the system puts it in rather than being able to enter it in the title submission field.

But it can still follow after it and be in a separate column, just as the watched/eye icon is.

I see what you are saying - you're talking about more of a tag.

srob650 wrote:
I see what you are saying - you're talking about more of a tag.

Yup.

Well, given the wildly different opinions, this is going to be a though one.

Option B would probably provide the most flexibility, but it's also the most work to implement.

And that was one of my main concerns, that it not be complicated to code for you. :)

Does anyone have an objection to the specials being listed chronologically with the normal episodes, but being clearly marked (tag, background bar in a different color, something) to show that they're not part of the "normal" plot? That would seem to be the easiest to code. People are already putting in a Special Flag. You'd just need to recode the existing episode list display to display that line of the episode list differently based on the existing flag. It's coding, but it's just adding to what is already there, rather than creating something new.

That's not A, B, or C above, which is why I feel the need to detail D, as it were.

That's only a small part of it though. It doesn't address specials in the calendar / watch list / previous & next episode links / etc.

Calendar/watch list: add them. Is there some reason people wouldn't want to at least know about previews and specials about the shows they watch?

Previous/Next episode, ditto to some degree. Or just leave them out of the Previous/Next chain, as long as they're showing up elsewhere.

If worse comes to worse, just have them on the episode list as described in my earlier post and exclude them elsewhere. At least then we have a decent chance of finding them.

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I'm sure there are people that would absolutely positively insist that they don't want to see any specials anywhere. Heck, I don't care about them that much. But if they're important enough to have at TVMaze, it would seem that they're important enough to make them findable. What use is having them at TVMaze if we can't find them?

Burying the next Doctor Who winter special 8+ seasons ago on the episode list is just... weird.

Will it be possible to let everyone decide for themselves to add the specials or not?

I suggested that here :http://www.tvmaze.com/threads/519/add-specials-in-... because for some show, they are a part of the story. And if there is an option, each user will be abble to see what they want.