So was it ever determined when someone with this credit is listed as a Show Star, and when they're a Guest Star? I see it both ways on different shows.
Probably it could be determined that there are reasons to do it differently, such as "Well, if it's font size X", or "It's placed after the main crew while the main stars are placed before the main crew". But that seems kind of complicate. Why not just "If it says 'Also Starring', it's X"?
In my opinion it's a case by case problem as it's one of those things that have ment something different over different time periods and country of origin.
In this case, two current-ish shows from the same country. As opposed to, say, the 1950s and the 2010s.
Without knowing the details it's hard to say, but it could be them stroking someone's ego when the role isn't big enough to list them first they get listed last instead with a "also starring", "with", "and" ..etc.
Aidan wrote:
Without knowing the details it's hard to say, but it could be them stroking someone's ego when the role isn't big enough to list them first they get listed last instead with a "also starring", "with", "and" ..etc.
Sometimes it's also could be with the "surprise" appearance of one of the main stars, when revealing the actor's appearance at the beginning of episode would spoil the plot twist or something.
I think we've already discussed this in the past, and the conclusion was to treat this with the case-by-case approach. If none of the official sources is clear about those "also starring" actors, where they main stars or recurring, the decision lies completely on the shoulders of the contributor :)
I also "vote" for the "case by case" approach :)
Does the show have "guest stars" usually? I know sometimes shows say additional cast or also starring on some things but they don't usually list anybody as a "guest star" or "co-star" and then I just put them as guest, but then there's shows like Brooklyn Nine-Nine that have the main cast in the intro and then have Dirk Blocker and Joel McKinnon Miller after the credits because they were upped to main cast after season 1 and presumably they just didn't want to redo the intro.
So yeah, case by case is the vague way to vote lol
JuanArango wrote:
I also "vote" for the "case by case" approach :)
Which means... what? Do we vote on each case by case instance? Or as tnt notes, do we leave it up to the contributor? And which contributor, since we have multiple ones? The first contributor? The last one? Someone else?
I'm a contributor, and I'm glad to change it. Or leave it as is. But that doesn't seem to be what is intended here.
Aidan wrote:
Without knowing the details it's hard to say, but it could be them stroking someone's ego when the role isn't big enough to list them first they get listed last instead with a "also starring", "with", "and" ..etc.
It could be, but does it matter? That seems to be intuiting the motivations for why someone is credited the way they are, rather than the actual credit.
Actors could be listed as Show Stars or Special Guest Star rather than Guest Stars, or Guest Stars rather than Co Stars, because of ego stroking or other motivations, too. But doesn't TVMaze just go by... how they're credited?
"Knowing the details" appears to make it more complicated, not less.
I thought the FAQ already dealt with this:
A Cast entry specifies a person part of the show's main cast.
The following terms indicate that a credit is considered Main Cast:
Main Cast
Starring
Show/Series Regular
Lead Role
The following terms are normally considered Main Cast, though individual shows can have a different policy:
Principal Cast
Also Starring
The following terms explicitly indicate a credit is not considered Main Cast. These should be added on the episode level instead, as Guest Cast:
Recurring
Special Guest
Co-Starring
I thought it did too, which is why I was surprised and puzzled when I found entries otherwise. That said, terms like "normally" and "individual shows have a different policy" are pretty broad.
Regardless, as I've noted before, when I find Trusted Contributors and above who don't follow what seem to be the policies, it raises the question (to me) at least as to whether I understand the policies. No pointing in messaging contributors that they're wrong, if I'm the one who is wrong. :) But no problem: I'll message them and let them (gently) know that they were wrong. Thanks!
Gadfly wrote:
Which means... what? Do we vote on each case by case instance? Or as tnt notes, do we leave it up to the contributor? And which contributor, since we have multiple ones? The first contributor? The last one? Someone else?I'm a contributor, and I'm glad to change it. Or leave it as is. But that doesn't seem to be what is intended here.
If another contributor added them wrong (in your opinion) you could a) leave it; b) change it; c) ask them what's the reason behind that and let them change it if it's indeed a mistake. And it is entirely up to you, what to do in each and every particular case. As you love to repeat, it is an open edit system. It is also entirely possible, that broadcasted and streamed versions of the show have different credits for the same actors (there were precedents).
If it's you who adding credits and have doubts about some "also starring" actor (for whatever reason), and you couldn't find the answer in any official source (mentioned by policy), you could a) add the credit the way you think is most appropriate, based on whatever knowledge you have; b) ask for advice in the data forums. And again, it is entirely up to you in every case.
Or you could propose a different solution.
As long as we have site guidelines and I'm tasked with following them and making sure other people do, it isn't entirely up to me in every case whether it's an open-edit system or not. That was part of my point.
There's no basis that I'm aware of to determine which is "more appropriate", it's up to the individual sites. If you're aware of such an objective basis for what "Also Starring" is always translated.. what is it? Otherwise, as you said, I can ask for advice in the data forums. Which... this is the data forum, right? :)
Gadfly wrote:
As long as we have site guidelines and I'm tasked with following them and making sure other people do, it isn't entirely up to me in every case whether it's an open-edit system or not. That was part of my point.There's no basis that I'm aware of to determine which is "more appropriate", it's up to the individual sites. If you're aware of such an objective basis for what "Also Starring" is always translated.. what is it? Otherwise, as you said, I can ask for advice in the data forums. Which... this is the data forum, right? :)
So? What are you asking? I don't see the question.
I suppose the question should look something like this: "Ok, guys, here's this show [link]. There's some actors credited as "Also starring", and I couldn't determine, are they supposed to be main stars or guests?"
By asking a generic questions you could only get a generic answer, which was given to you above. There's simply no "objective basis for what "Also Starring" is always translated.." Because it's not always translatedwith the same result.
"Also starring" means "main cast" in most of the cases, not always. If for some show you have doubts (for whatever reason), that "also starring" actors should belong to main cast, or you found a show in TVmaze database, where "Also starring" actors are listed as guests, you could either do the research yourself, to determine the right way to credit those actors, or ask in the forums about this particular show and those particular actors.
And to clear the air, it looks like Lost in Space is one of those cases, where "Also starring" doesn't mean "Main cast". The show doesn't have a "Guest stars" or "Co starring" credits, only main cast and "Also starring". So either all of the "Also starring" actors should be moved to main cast, or should be considered as recurring. Not only Brian Steele, just because he is the first in the list of "Also starring."
And press release from Netflix names only 7 actors as stars. Which could be helpful in situations like this.
So, back to the point. Either The Robot should be moved from the main cast of Lost in Space back to guest stars, or every other actor from the "Also starring" list (which literally means every other actor besides the main stars) should be moved to main cast as well.
For all unfamiliar with the show, this is how the end credits looks like https://imgur.com/a/90TK1TR
tnt wrote:
So, back to the point. Either The Robot should be moved from the main cast of Lost in Space back to guest stars, or every other actor from the "Also starring" list (which literally means every other actor besides the main stars) should be moved to main cast as well.For all unfamiliar with the show, this is how the end credits looks like https://imgur.com/a/90TK1TR
It makes much more sense to put the robot to guest cast, it is highly unlikely that all appearing actors have main cast contracts :)
JuanArango wrote:
It makes much more sense to put the robot to guest cast, it is highly unlikely that all appearing actors have main cast contracts :)
This is just another example of rampant robophobiaism in Hollywood and it must stop NOW! #me01110100 01101111 01101111
SilverSurfer wrote:
This is just another example of rampant robophobiaism in Hollywood and it must stop NOW! #me01110100 01101111 01101111
rofl, yeh those robots are taking over Hollywood!
JuanArango wrote:
rofl, yeh those robots are taking over Hollywood!
shush you! they're may be listening!
