Option C
Let's leave it as it is and only add clearer markings in specials.
B wihout any doubt!
Check out for a beta version: https://staging.tvmaze.net/shows/1087/complicated-specials/episodes :)
@david wrote:
Check out for a beta version: https://staging.tvmaze.net/shows/1087/complicated-specials/episodes :)
Looks good. Will there be a possibility to list all specials in the old way?
Looks great!
@tnt wrote:
Looks good. Will there be a possibility to list all specials in the old way?
No, the episode list view will look the same to everyone.
@david wrote:
No, the episode list view will look the same to everyone.
not cool. and it will definitely lead to endless "significant or not" arguments because some people won't appreciate a cluttered watchlist.
I don't like it. There are barely any significant specials and it will be misused a lot. Also I don't like the way it is displayed either.
I am fine with it, definitely better than before.
The policy won't leave room for "significant or not" arguments. And if there is demand for it, the watchlist will have a preference to hide even significant specials.
As for displaying them together with the season's regular episodes, that is what the vast majority of users voted for in this thread and elsewhere. Do you have any other specific concerns?
@david wrote:
The policy won't leave room for "significant or not" arguments. And if there is demand for it, the watchlist will have a preference to hide even significant specials.As for displaying them together with the season's regular episodes, that is what the vast majority of users voted for in this thread and elsewhere. Do you have any other specific concerns?
and what would those requirements be?
Proposed new policy text:
## Episode Type
Either a regular episode or a special. An episode is a special either when an official source labels it as such; or when it does not designate an episode number to the episode while episodes on that show normally do have a number. Note that it only counts if an episode is explicitly labeled as special, using the term special somewhere in an announcement ("join us for a special episode of..") should be ignored.
Specials are always part of a season. If the official source does not specify the season, the episode should be added to the closest possible season (which can be either the current season, the previous season, or the upcoming season).
Specials should be rare; if a season has nearly as many specials as regular episodes, you're most likely doing it wrong. Specials should be standalone and not in a serial format with other specials. For example, if each episode in a season is followed by an "after show" or "webisode", those episodes should be in a separate show entry.
The inclusion policy for shows applies to specials as well. If the special was not released on the same source (network or web channel) as the show itself, it must meet the notability requirements. Theatrical movies related to a show may not be added.
### Significant Special
If the episode has the same premise (for scripted shows, a scripted episode; or for reality shows, a reality episode containing predominantly new footage) as regular episodes on the show, it should be marked as "Significant Special". Examples are the Doctor Who Christmas specials, or Black Mirror's "Bandersnatch".
### Insignificant Special
If the episode has a different premise than regular episodes on the show, it should get the type "Insignificant Special". Examples are previews/sneak peeks, recap episodes, after shows, behind the scenes, "best of" episodes.
Insignificant specials are only allowed if their length is at least 50% the length of regular episodes.
Note that, as discussed earlier, "significant special" merely indicates that the episode has the same premise as regular episodes do. It makes no assumption on the epsiode being relevant or irrelevant to the show's storyline as originally planned.
I'm still open to different naming than "significant special" and "insignificant special", if anyone has a great suggestion.
Discussed Thomas' feedback elsewhere.
We'll still look at subtly tweaking the layout so (significant) specials will stand out against the regular episodes.
Currently the watchlist will not show insignificant specials, but will show significant specials. We concluded that this behavior is probably perfect in 99% of the scenario's, since - as we concluded earlier in this thread - significant specials are very likely to be relevant to the storyline at least to some extent, so even if you don't end up watching it you'll at the very least want to be aware of its existence.
But if someone still has a great argument in favor of being able to hide significant specials from the watchlist, let's hear it.
two things with the definitions:
A network saying in promotional material "Join us for a special episode" or "This is a very special episode of ..." does not make the episode a special! This is usually marketing-speak for an episode with a particular emotional impact or story point that is covered. You may also want to include something about scheduling, as specials usually air outside of the program's normal season.
I know Supernatural has already done one special episode (A Very Special Supernatural Episode) and they are planning another one for just before the last episode. These are more retrospectives, looking at the history of the show itself. I would assume these would be classified as "insignificant"? Which, by the way, why are we making the distinction at all? Is there going to be some sort of search function attached to the type?
Okay, three things.
The term "clip show" has a specific definition within television. It was a way for productions to save money before the days of DVDs by reusing clips of episodes usually tied together by a very thin string of plot. (Examples would be Stargate episode s1e21 Politics, Stargate Atlantis S1e17 Letters From Pegasus, The A-Team s2e23 Curtain Call) These aren't specials, they're just a cheap way to fill an episode count. The point is, you might want to either clarify what you mean by "clip show" or remove it as an example.
@LadyShelley wrote:
two things with the definitions:A network saying in promotional material "Join us for a special episode" or "This is a very special episode of ..." does not make the episode a special! This is usually marketing-speak for an episode with a particular emotional impact or story point that is covered. You may also want to include something about scheduling, as specials usually air outside of the program's normal season.
I know Supernatural has already done one special episode (A Very Special Supernatural Episode) and they are planning another one for just before the last episode. These are more retrospectives, looking at the history of the show itself. I would assume these would be classified as "insignificant"? Which, by the way, why are we making the distinction at all? Is there going to be some sort of search function attached to the type?
Okay, three things.
The term "clip show" has a specific definition within television. It was a way for productions to save money before the days of DVDs by reusing clips of episodes usually tied together by a very thin string of plot. (Examples would be Stargate episode s1e21 Politics, Stargate Atlantis S1e17 Letters From Pegasus, The A-Team s2e23 Curtain Call) These aren't specials, they're just a cheap way to fill an episode count. The point is, you might want to either clarify what you mean by "clip show" or remove it as an example.
I remember those "clip shows", often happened with syndicated shows to fill in the episode count, but as those are within the regular episodes, they will not interfere with the new specials handling.
We make the distinction because of the watchlist, the significant ones will be placed within the episode list :)
@LadyShelley wrote:
A network saying in promotional material "Join us for a special episode" or "This is a very special episode of ..." does not make the episode a special! This is usually marketing-speak for an episode with a particular emotional impact or story point that is covered. You may also want to include something about scheduling, as specials usually air outside of the program's normal season.
Good point! I added an note on it in the proposed policy, and will still try to make it more clear.
I know Supernatural has already done one special episode (A Very Special Supernatural Episode) and they are planning another one for just before the last episode. These are more retrospectives, looking at the history of the show itself. I would assume these would be classified as "insignificant"? Which, by the way, why are we making the distinction at all? Is there going to be some sort of search function attached to the type?
The https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/12767/supernatural-s10-special-a-very-special-supernatural-special with behind-the-scenes shots and interviews would definitely be "insignificant". The distinction is there because almost everyone will care for a show's significant specials, while only a small amount of people will care for the insignificant specials. Thus, the significant specials will be displayed more prominently in the episode list, will be displayed in the watch list, will be accessible in the previous/next episode links, etc.
The term "clip show" has a specific definition within television. It was a way for productions to save money before the days of DVDs by reusing clips of episodes usually tied together by a very thin string of plot. (Examples would be Stargate episode s1e21 Politics, Stargate Atlantis S1e17 Letters From Pegasus, The A-Team s2e23 Curtain Call) These aren't specials, they're just a cheap way to fill an episode count. The point is, you might want to either clarify what you mean by "clip show" or remove it as an example.
Right, I didn't consider that clip show episodes also exist as non-specials. I removed it from the examples.
As for the API, I plan to:
* Add a property "type" to episodes ("regular", "significant_special", "insignificant_special")
* Include both significant and insignificant specials in the show/episodes?specials=1 endpoint
I'm still considering to:
* Allow for embedding episodes including (both types of) specials in the shows/:id endpoint
I'm still on the fence about:
* Including significant specials in the regular show/episodes (without ?specials=1) endpoint
In a future API version, I plan to:
* Simply always include (both types of) specials everywhere
@david wrote:
Discussed Thomas' feedback elsewhere.We'll still look at subtly tweaking the layout so (significant) specials will stand out against the regular episodes.
Currently the watchlist will not show insignificant specials, but will show significant specials. We concluded that this behavior is probably perfect in 99% of the scenario's, since - as we concluded earlier in this thread - significant specials are very likely to be relevant to the storyline at least to some extent, so even if you don't end up watching it you'll at the very least want to be aware of its existence.
But if someone still has a great argument in favor of being able to hide significant specials from the watchlist, let's hear it.
What if the significant special released on the source, different from the main show, therefore have blank airdate? How it will be placed in the episode list?
The most recent example would be https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/1928994/the-boys-s02-special-butcher, which has all the necessary qualities (same premise, scripted etc.), but was released on the show's twitter account, not on Prime Video.
Another example: https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/1610077/psych-s08-special-psych-2-lassie-come-home
@tnt wrote:
What if the significant special released on the source, different from the main show, therefore have blank airdate? How it will be placed in the episode list?
The most recent example would be https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/1928994/the-boys-s02-special-butcher, which has all the necessary qualities (same premise, scripted etc.), but was released on the show's twitter account, not on Prime Video.
Another example: https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/1610077/psych-s08-special-psych-2-lassie-come-home
They go at the start of the season; you can see that here: https://staging.tvmaze.net/shows/1085/test/episodes