Crew type question

I always add this as "Music"

You have both? isn't that a duplicate ?

Tonks wrote:
You have both? isn't that a duplicate ?

Yeh, I think this is a duplicate that should be deleted, will ask david about it :)

JuanArango wrote:
Yeh, I think this is a duplicate that should be deleted, will ask david about it :)

I've always thought as the composer being the one created the music and Music as the people actually playing it.

Someone can play music without being the original creator and a composer doesn't necessarily have to play the music. He writes it.

So it's not a duplicate.

If the credits state: 'music composed by' that means he's the composer and you should mark it as such.

Jan wrote:
Someone can play music without being the original creator and a composer doesn't necessarily have to play the music. He writes it.

So it's not a duplicate.

If the credits state: 'music composed by' that means he's the composer and you should mark it as such.

But in 90% of all tv and film credits it just says: Music: Peter Goldstein.

Jan wrote:
Someone can play music without being the original creator and a composer doesn't necessarily have to play the music. He writes it.

So it's not a duplicate.

If the credits state: 'music composed by' that means he's the composer and you should mark it as such.

Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.

JuanArango wrote:
But in 90% of all tv and film credits it just says: Music: Peter Goldstein.

Yes, there's no doubt about that. But now, for example, we have two Canadian series, Killjoys and Dark Matter, which have "Music composed by" and "Music composed" respectively. But we have Killjoys' composer listed as "Composer", and the one from Dark Matter as "Music", that's why the question was asked.

But it's all clear now, so I just change Benjamin Pinkerton in Dark Matter from Music to Composer.

We had this discussion a few months ago when David was culling crew types and it was decided to leave it as there is a difference between music composed by someone (usually the theme song) and music used within the show. Several programs, Buffy, NCIS New Orleans, and a few others were used as examples of how the show's theme song composer and other music used in episodes are not always the same people.

What about "Music composed and conducted by"? The person credited varies from episode to episode, and sometimes there is no such credit at all. so the person listed isn't the theme song composer.

Sorry it's going to be long..

It is a duplicate. It wouldn't be if it were "compositor" because that is about image editing.

You're comparing crew types from two different countries. If i told you that the bad translation of executive producer in french credits was delegated producer, you'd go nuts, right (the position of executive producer does not specifically exist in France even though we're seeing it mention in some recent shows probably mimicking the US but not understanding what that category may encompass (loads of stuff (which Grillo Marxuach and Jose Molina went over in their podcast children of tendu) and a delegated producer who might be the closest to executive producer has a different job, it's not always a writing position (most of the time it isn't), it's the dudes that are looking for financing. But here you're comparing two countries which sometimes use music, and sometimes use composer. Wynonna Earp has an opening sequence, and there is probably a credit at the end of who composed and who performs it. The same way you'd see in movies at the end.

If a theme has been composed by someone else, for example, let's say Killjoys season 1, it would read Michelle Lovretta and Finny McConnell. But the perfomance of it would be credited to Finny McConnell & Katie Kaboom of the cahones and the music of the show is composed by trevor Yuile (i just check the credits)

If you look at Grey's Anatomy first few years, the theme was composed and performed by a band (snapps i think). It does specifically say so in he credits. And the music is by Danny Lux, i believe.

Today, on network tv, there is hardly any theme (song) because as you all know, the only thing they could cut to get more ad time was the opening sequence which means no more theme songs ( or music if no lyrics.)

If they have "Music" (by) on US shows, the music is composed by that person (or by his/her studio) let's not be naive, they're never alone. That's why they have an entire section about music. But who composed most of it is the person credited. Ask Bear McCreary if he's not the composer of most of his stuff. You can even recognize it. They fallback on their schticks, i can recognize lux, mcreary (most of the time), giachinno (there is nearly always a section with a choir), zimmer, horner, williams on pretty much anything they work on and they have entire staff doing their jobs for them. They are mostly brands now. Like with painting, and you had rembrandts schools etc... Even today, some artist have students that can mimic their "master"'s work.

So for me it is a duplicate, just because another country used another term, does not mean it is not the same thing. You could ask Trevor Yuile who mostly work on canadian shows or bear mccreary, if they want to talk about their work, i am sure they'll go into details. The same way writers do (Children of tendu, craig mazin and john august, writers panel to name just the big three). There are ample interviews by composers talking about their work.

What i would suggest is (and i pretty sure this is not an easy task) : merge music and composer and create because they exist : "Theme composed by" "Theme performed by". It would stop the confusion entirely and i am saying this while i am unsure if they don't exist already. They might (i hardly go into the production credits on this site)

These two ("Theme composed by" "Theme performed by") don't exist as much as they used to but before let's say around 2005, they were prevalent. And they are still very much alive on cable shows (with exceptions). It might even be the same composer. Like the guy on Got and Westworld composed the music, the opening sequence and performed it all. He even showed his interpretation of the westworld theme on a piano. You could say that the main composer is them, they create a bible that can then be replicated by their employees. The same way a director creates a visual bible for a show and all subsequent directors follow it and for the majority of american and canadian shows there is always a key writer and a key director that usually has an executive position (o co-exec). Sometimes, it is the same person, sometimes it isn't but even when it is, they get different credits, not just for the sake of it, but because it means more money and copyright protection.

It's a suggestion, i think if these two "Theme composed by" "Theme performed by" don't exist here, it might be interesting to talk about it among the powers that be to add them or not. If they already exist, then you do have a duplicate; whatever you do with this information is up to you.

Tonks wrote:
It's a suggestion, i think if these two "Theme composed by" "Theme performed by" don't exist here, it might be interesting to talk about it among the powers that be to add them or not. If they already exist, then you do have a duplicate; whatever you do with this information is up to you.

For obvious reasons I would not quote the entire post :)

We have separate crew type called "Main Title Theme". But series theme and episode music is not the same. So you cannot replace "Music by" or "Composer" with "Theme", it's a different things. And it's pretty common when the main theme and episode score are written by different people. Or when the theme is an independent music piece, like in The Big Bang Theory or Scrubs.

Killjoys, for example. They've had main theme credits only once, in the pilot episode. And it was credited the way they do in the movies. At the end of credits roll, with the title of the song, "Westerley Theme", lyrics and music authors and performers. But at the same time in the main credits they have "Music composed by Trevor Yuile" who had nothing to do with the theme song. Then Tim Welch have taken Yuile's place, so in the main credits they had "Music composed by Tim Welch", and in the end credits "Additional scoring Trevor Yuile".

But to be honest I don't really get the difference between "Music by" and "Composer". What do they mean by "Music by"? Music is written by? But isn't it the same as "Composed by"? The people do not pull the music out of magic hat :) Written and performed? But aren't the film composers take participation in the recording of the music they wrote? So it's pretty much the same, the difference is mostly in credits writing.

tnt wrote:
For obvious reasons I would not quote the entire post :)

We have separate crew type called "Main Title Theme". But series theme and episode music is not the same. So you cannot replace "Music by" or "Composer" with "Theme", it's a different things. And it's pretty common when the main theme and episode score are written by different people. Or when the theme is an independent music piece, like in The Big Bang Theory or Scrubs.

Killjoys, for example. They've had main theme credits only once, in the pilot episode. And it was credited the way they do in the movies. At the end of credits roll, with the title of the song, "Westerley Theme", lyrics and music authors and performers. But at the same time in the main credits they have "Music composed by Trevor Yuile" who had nothing to do with the theme song. Then Tim Welch have taken Yuile's place, so in the main credits they had "Music composed by Tim Welch", and in the end credits "Additional scoring Trevor Yuile".

But to be honest I don't really get the difference between "Music by" and "Composer". What do they mean by "Music by"? Music is written by? But isn't it the same as "Composed by"? The people do not pull the music out of magic hat :) Written and performed? But aren't the film composers take participation in the recording of the music they wrote? So it's pretty much the same, the difference is mostly in credits writing.

I didn't suggest to get rid of music and replace them by theme composed and performed by, if you already have Main Title Theme, you have half of the second part. I suggested to merge composer and music into one (if feasible and agreed by the people in charge), as one is definitely duplicate and add if they didn't exist the other two. Main title theme isn't enough by itself. Because it can be composed by someone and performed by someone else. Like the Westerley Theme of season 1 of killjoys.

They're not that many shows that change music composer from episode to episode (Supernatural comes to mind, it switches from Lennertz to Gruska, but it's not from episode to episode, it's pretty random). Main title may be taken down from time to time to get more content in. iZombie is an exemple this season. I haven't never watched big bang, i don't remember the scrubs theme changing from episode to episode, i do remember the psych one changing from to time to time, adding a different performer (the lyrics remaining the same, the music being rearranged but it would be in that specific episode credit) when it happens. It happened a few times also on Monk, but the theme was still written originally by whomever and the performer, who might also be a song writer, did a specific arrangement. But that's pretty rare, it is basically an overall credit (show wise) with a few exceptions.

If we go by movie lexicon : music or composer is the SCORE of a movie. Main Title Theme is something else and it has two parts (sometimes written and performed by the same people, sometimes not).

And i agree with you, having both (music and composer) is confusing. Having main title written and performed by isn't. You have thousands of singers who can't write lyrics or music, being just singers.

Hope it's clearer.

Tonks wrote:
(Supernatural comes to mind, it switches from Lennertz to Gruska, but it's not from episode to episode, it's pretty random).

As the DVD commentaries note, they alternate. Basically, the only time that they don't go A-B-A-B-A-B is when the episodes are aired out of production order.

tnt wrote:
But to be honest I don't really get the difference between "Music by" and "Composer". What do they mean by "Music by"? Music is written by? But isn't it the same as "Composed by"? The people do not pull the music out of magic hat :) Written and performed? But aren't the film composers take participation in the recording of the music they wrote? So it's pretty much the same, the difference is mostly in credits writing.

It gets weirder when you go with older shows. I was referring primarily to Have Gun Will Travel above. Sometimes it has Music Composed and Conducted by with one person. Sometimes it has Music Composed by as one person and Music Conducted by as another person. Sometimes it just has "Music".

Then you've got Johnny Western, who sings the title theme (but only the end credits one) in most of the episodes. And I believe wrote/composed it but he's not credited as such. Then you've got Bernard Hermann, who (uncredited) did the opening instrumental theme.