The Daily Show

LadyShelley wrote:
Is there a way you or someone else up the food chain could merge them easily? There would certainly need to be an edit wiki explaining it as well since I'm sure someone will want to re-add separate listings for each host.

We also may need to take a closer look at some of the other talk shows to make sure we don't have a similar problem with some of them. Some of the older shows (like the Tonight Show) could be a problem though as they pre-date the internet

We will discuss this with david and jan :)

But do keep in mind, that in the case of merge everyone, who follows TDS with TN would have to manually skip about 3 thousand episodes one by one, and anyone who had stopped watching the show would need to unfollow new merged version so it wouldn't pop up on the watchlist. And in case of new hosts in future, the process of skipping episodes for new followers would get even worse.

So there's hardly a vital reason to be pedantic about copying the network's way of numbering especially since the network site wasn't designed for people following shows on a daily basis as the TVmaze was. (Therefore it's not their concern if a show lasts 5 seasons, 50 or 105 for example. But here it would be painfully inconvenient)

Myshows wrote:
But do keep in mind, that in the case of merge everyone, who follows TDS with TN would have to manually skip about 3 thousand episodes one by one, and anyone who had stopped watching the show would need to unfollow new merged version so it wouldn't pop up on the watchlist. And in case of new hosts in future, the process of skipping episodes for new followers would get even worse.

So there's hardly a vital reason to be pedantic about copying the network's way of numbering especially since the network site wasn't designed for people following shows on a daily basis as the TVmaze was. (Therefore it's not their concern if a show lasts 5 seasons, 50 or 105 for example. But here it would be painfully inconvenient)

I agree, such a step should not be taken lightly, we will not make any quick decisions about this :)

JuanArango wrote:
I agree, such a step should not be taken lightly, we will not make any quick decisions about this :)

You sound like Yoda, only with proper words sequence)

Myshows wrote:
You sound like Yoda, only with proper words sequence)

haha, well before we change stuff of this grandeur, we will definitely discuss it :)

Whether to use a new show entry or not depends on whether the network presents it as a new show or not.

At first sight, it looks like CC mostly considers it separate shows. The show name changed (I see they use the full "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and "The Daily Show with Trevor Noah" name in most places), and the shows have two separate websites: http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/episode-guide and http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah. However, they are ambigous here and there so it's not completely straight forward.

What we could do is list a few possible qualifiers in the policy; where we'd create a new entry if any of those conditions are met. Like

- The on-screen show title changed

- The numbering in a press release resets to season 1, episode 1

- etc...

In either case, the decision should be consistent within a group of shows, the current situation for the Daily Show is indeed not ideal.

My two cents is that they are different shows. Most sources show them as the same show. IMDB lists all of the episodes under one blanket title "The Daily Show" ComedyCentral.com also lists all episodes under "The Daily Show" and considers the current incarnation as Season 22.

Zap2It however does list them as separate shows. The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (starting in 1999) and The Daily Show With Trevor Noah which starts over again at Season 1.

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCSearch.do?searchTerm=the+daily+show&searchType=simple&aid=zap2it

For this reason I believe this show is best split under respective hosts and each new incarnation start at Season 1. Most of the time the Network is not a good authority counter to common sense because the Network tends to use their own numbering system that doesn't match the published TV listings.

dpratt wrote:
My two cents is that they are different shows. Most sources show them as the same show. IMDB lists all of the episodes under one blanket title "The Daily Show" ComedyCentral.com also lists all episodes under "The Daily Show" and considers the current incarnation as Season 22.

Zap2It however does list them as separate shows. The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (starting in 1999) and The Daily Show With Trevor Noah which starts over again at Season 1.

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCSearch.do?searchTerm=the+daily+show&searchType=simple&aid=zap2it

For this reason I believe this show is best split under respective hosts and each new incarnation start at Season 1. Most of the time the Network is not a good authority counter to common sense because the Network tends to use their own numbering system that doesn't match the published TV listings.

Sometimes the network's decisions have nothing in common with common sense :) However, if to choose between network and zap2it – the choice is obvious. There's no Season 1, 2 etc., they don't use the conventional scheme.

The official social accounts are called simply "The Daily Show". The press-release, announcing Noah as a new host, titled "COMEDY CENTRAL® NAMES TREVOR NOAH AS NEXT HOST OF “THE DAILY SHOW”. So by all means it's a single show with changing hosts. Extended "The Daily Show with..." titles could be used as AKA and season subtitles.

I believe we had a similar discussion recently, about some morning show (couldn't remember which one), which had the similar problem, changing hosts and therefore changing name. It ended up with simplified name with AKAs.

My two cents. If you actually watch the shows the title graphic and voice intro both say "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" or "The Daily Show wtih Trevor Noah" therefore they are different shows regardless of how they are cataloged on comedycentral.com. This is different from morning shows whose names don't change when the hosts change.

Maybe that's a point I should have lead with.

The problem with using the network as an authority is that networks are notorious for cataloging their episodes differently than TVlistings and out of chronological order. TVmaze always catalogs episodes in the chronological order that they are first broadcast, and not necessarily the way that the network catalogs them. So I don't see how this is any different.

I think it's accurate to say that "The Daily Show" is a single show as per the points that you made. But it's more accurate to say that they are different shows because of the different names.

Anyway. That's just my two cents. Feel free to do with it what you like.

I think the safest way would be to follow the way the show named in the daily/weekly episodic press releases.

So the main reason for naming them different shows seems to be convenience; someone mentioned back up the thread having to make episodes for a version of the show s/he did actually watch. I don't know how that's any different from me no longer watching NCIS, but I need to mark out the episodes on the Watch List anyway so they don't show up.

The network considers it one show: The Daily Show, that has had several different hosts over the years. They don't change the season or episode numbers, and as tnt pointed out the press releases call it The Daily Show. Some folks may not like it, but to follow the data policies for this site (and apparently several others) it should be considered one program. (and yes dpratt, I have watched it, ;-) )

With that said, can AKAs be added at the season level, that way each season could be marked with who the host is/was?

LadyShelley wrote:
So the main reason for naming them different shows seems to be convenience; someone mentioned back up the thread having to make episodes for a version of the show s/he did actually watch. I don't know how that's any different from me no longer watching NCIS, but I need to mark out the episodes on the Watch List anyway so they don't show up.

The network considers it one show: The Daily Show, that has had several different hosts over the years. They don't change the season or episode numbers, and as tnt pointed out the press releases call it The Daily Show. Some folks may not like it, but to follow the data policies for this site (and apparently several others) it should be considered one program. (and yes dpratt, I have watched it, ;-) )

With that said, can AKAs be added at the season level, that way each season could be marked with who the host is/was?

I agree with what most said here, it should remain one show and the seasons could have season names added.

LadyShelley wrote:
So the main reason for naming them different shows seems to be convenience; someone mentioned back up the thread having to make episodes for a version of the show s/he did actually watch. I don't know how that's any different from me no longer watching NCIS, but I need to mark out the episodes on the Watch List anyway so they don't show up.

The network considers it one show: The Daily Show, that has had several different hosts over the years. They don't change the season or episode numbers, and as tnt pointed out the press releases call it The Daily Show. Some folks may not like it, but to follow the data policies for this site (and apparently several others) it should be considered one program. (and yes dpratt, I have watched it, ;-) )

With that said, can AKAs be added at the season level, that way each season could be marked with who the host is/was?

I think pretty much everyone has seen it. :)

I think there are good arguments for both. Having all incarnations classified under one show is definitely convenient for its own reasons. But since the title of the show changed between incarnations I think that is also a good argument to list each incarnation as separate shows. But I will defer to the wisdom of the admins.

BTW, two cents on the topic of the network's policy. Every time there is a new host, episodes with the previous one are gone from their site and you can't get them. That happened with the episodes with Jon Stewart when Trevor Noah took over, and that happened with the Craig Kilbor's episodes when JS became a host. So it could an indicator that the network considers TDS as separate shows.

So, either you smoosh together all the shows either you should divide TDS with Jon Stewart and TDS with Craig Kilborn, which is the one page right now, and that was my initial suggestion all along.

Myshows wrote:
So, either you smoosh together all the shows either you should divide TDS with Jon Stewart and TDS with Craig Kilborn, which is the one page right now, and that was my initial suggestion all along.

Agreed.

As we discovered in this thread, Comedy Central is ambiguous and there's no real stance on whether The Daily Show should be considered a single show or 3 separate shows. As far as I could see, in every other case like this (a talkshow that revolves around one particular host) we've created separate shows (http://www.tvmaze.com/search?q=tonight+show+with, http://www.tvmaze.com/search?q=late+night+with, etc).

So for the sake of consistency I split up the Jon Stewart entry in two separate shows, and we now have 3 separate entries: http://www.tvmaze.com/search?q=daily+show+with

If this ambiguity comes up again in the future, we'll create a policy rule for it.

Oh, thank you very much! You made my day :)

Yeah, Thanks David. Good call.

everyone seems happy now :)