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eherberg wrote 3 years ago: 1

@Mediaman85 wrote:
https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/838/dirty-jobs/episodes

Is there any way to put these episodes back to the way they were?  Someone has renumbered everything and now nothing makes any sense.  Just take a look at S04 for example...

Or a 2009 episode in the midst of season 1.  :-)

27 days ago I brought up this potential problem when the user responsible posted needing verification after hitting the editing limit.  The user was 'verified' and editing continued.  Just because Discovery+ is now the easiest to access does not mean that the season/numbering is the same as it was when the program aired.  The only valid source would be a web archive version for the time it aired.  Unless there is an edit log that goes back over a month - I'm not sure how to check this.  Perhaps an archive of another database listing will give an easier snapshot of how it was back in the day.  

It's a common problem that I sometimes wonder isn't caught more:  Users editing old programs using current listings and sources not being challenged on that practice.  I've often thought any database entry should be locked shortly after a show's ending and unlocked only on as-needed basis with a pretty compelling case needing to be made for changing air dates using appropriate date-accurate archive information as proof.


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JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@eherberg wrote:
Or a 2009 episode in the midst of season 1.  :-)

27 days ago I brought up this potential problem when the user responsible posted needing verification after hitting the editing limit.  The user was 'verified' and editing continued.  Just because Discovery+ is now the easiest to access does not mean that the season/numbering is the same as it was when the program aired.  The only valid source would be a web archive version for the time it aired.  Unless there is an edit log that goes back over a month - I'm not sure how to check this.  Perhaps an archive of another database listing will give an easier snapshot of how it was back in the day.  

It's a common problem that I sometimes wonder isn't caught more:  Users editing old programs using current listings and sources not being challenged on that practice.  I've often thought any database entry should be locked shortly after a show's ending and unlocked only on as-needed basis with a pretty compelling case needing to be made for changing air dates using appropriate date-accurate archive information as proof.

we could do the guide year based?


Trusted
lizardo wrote 3 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
yes, what we have cannot be correct :)

Season 11 of Red Skelton Show cleaned up but there is 5 episodes which do not belong.

1 Delete Me #45 don't know what this is about

https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/362720/the-red-skelton-show-11x45-delete-me

2 The Many Skeltons in Las Vegas #38 entered twice see #19

https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/362701/the-red-skelton-show-11x38-the-many-skeltons-in-las-vegas

3 June 5, 1962 # 37 according to CTVA this is a rerun of Season 10 Ep 20 Appleby's Cufflinks

https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/362715/the-red-skelton-show-11x37-june-5-1962

4 June 19, 1962  #36 according to CTVA it is a rerun of Season 11 Ep 4 Deadeye and the Gunslinger

https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/362717/the-red-skelton-show-11x36-june-19-1962

5 Freddie and the Yuletide Doll  #35 is a repeat of #13

https://www.tvmaze.com/episodes/362719/the-red-skelton-show-11x35-freddie-and-the-yuletide-doll

Thxs

 

 

eherberg wrote 3 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
we could do the guide year based?

If there is no way to look back from prior to when the user was getting verified for his 'correct' edits - it may be difficult.  I've spent some time on Wayback trying to find a season/episode guide on the discovery site for Dirty Jobs that existed back then.  The site no longer exists and the closest I found was snapshots like this that do year-based.  However, the show did have season/year divisions in press and production numbering.  Wayback does give insight to an early 2020 listing of how it existed here.

I thought that maybe Futon would be another good resource - but like the majority of their numbering, it's all based off of production-numbering (like the Scripps sites).  So their own press releases on Futon contradict their own numbering.  This press release for example talks about continuing the 4th season, but the listing has it as '501'.  Or a press release that calls 10/19/2010 a continuation of season 5 but list it as '701'.  

(Side note - not just isolated to this example, but all over futon's listings on most shows is the production-based numbering as well as their adopting new numbering whenever a network re-numbers ... without actually going back and cleaning up the previous numbering.  You can see this for example in Ghost Adventures where 3 completely different episodes have the same numbering.  Yet another reason I wish people who assert to be tv metadata knowledgeable would turn a more critical eye to Futon as a source).

Anyhoo -- side note aside, in this case just as Discovery played fast and loose with numbering in press releases with Mythbusters, the same would appear to be true here.  Given the break between episodes, those 'press' articles may not be terribly accurate for season division purposes (or if you consider that their use of 'continuing' means more about the show continuing vs season.

I would imagine if you really wanted to get a snapshot look at how things were being divided up season and episode-wise, a guaranteed version that would not have been touched is the ol' TV Rage site.  A snapshot of how those seasons and episodes were divided unspoiled by the whims of a network (or time) can be seen here.  This seems to match much of production numbering - although they did include the 3 pilot episodes as part of their season 1.  This would match how TVMaze had it also from my snapshot link above - as well as how TVDB has it too.  Given that the TVMaze listing was likely created by scraping the TVDB entries, that may be explainable.  But you do have 3 different sources that have pretty much the same season/episode breakdown.  For what it's worth - Wikipedia has a season/episode breakdown that is different than those 3 as well as Futon's division (which is different than the Rage, TVDB, and Maze entries.  TMDB divides them by year).

The initial decision is this:  If you can't locate a snapshot from an official source (and so far I haven't) - the next best 'official' snapshot has year-based seasons.  Searching old TVDB forum posts seems to mention this per a post I found from 2012.  

If you believe that the main players of other databases had it right (and their season-breaks do occur when Discovery big press releases announce returning episodes - as well as match season breaks on the old TV database sites) - then the snapshots of TVRage or TVMaze itself can be referred to revert changes.

And the takeaway is again to keep in mind what I mentioned now 28 days ago (with the change of the clock past midnight in my time zone) - changing old episode dates based on a current site -- even if the show site - can't be considered the end-all authority ... and also to consider this when looking at new users edits before approving more.  :-)


Head
JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@eherberg wrote:
If there is no way to look back from prior to when the user was getting verified for his 'correct' edits - it may be difficult.  I've spent some time on Wayback trying to find a season/episode guide on the discovery site for Dirty Jobs that existed back then.  The site no longer exists and the closest I found was snapshots like this that do year-based.  However, the show did have season/year divisions in press and production numbering.  Wayback does give insight to an early 2020 listing of how it existed here.

I thought that maybe Futon would be another good resource - but like the majority of their numbering, it's all based off of production-numbering (like the Scripps sites).  So their own press releases on Futon contradict their own numbering.  This press release for example talks about continuing the 4th season, but the listing has it as '501'.  Or a press release that calls 10/19/2010 a continuation of season 5 but list it as '701'.  

(Side note - not just isolated to this example, but all over futon's listings on most shows is the production-based numbering as well as their adopting new numbering whenever a network re-numbers ... without actually going back and cleaning up the previous numbering.  You can see this for example in Ghost Adventures where 3 completely different episodes have the same numbering.  Yet another reason I wish people who assert to be tv metadata knowledgeable would turn a more critical eye to Futon as a source).

Anyhoo -- side note aside, in this case just as Discovery played fast and loose with numbering in press releases with Mythbusters, the same would appear to be true here.  Given the break between episodes, those 'press' articles may not be terribly accurate for season division purposes (or if you consider that their use of 'continuing' means more about the show continuing vs season.

I would imagine if you really wanted to get a snapshot look at how things were being divided up season and episode-wise, a guaranteed version that would not have been touched is the ol' TV Rage site.  A snapshot of how those seasons and episodes were divided unspoiled by the whims of a network (or time) can be seen here.  This seems to match much of production numbering - although they did include the 3 pilot episodes as part of their season 1.  This would match how TVMaze had it also from my snapshot link above - as well as how TVDB has it too.  Given that the TVMaze listing was likely created by scraping the TVDB entries, that may be explainable.  But you do have 3 different sources that have pretty much the same season/episode breakdown.  For what it's worth - Wikipedia has a season/episode breakdown that is different than those 3 as well as Futon's division (which is different than the Rage, TVDB, and Maze entries.  TMDB divides them by year).

The initial decision is this:  If you can't locate a snapshot from an official source (and so far I haven't) - the next best 'official' snapshot has year-based seasons.  Searching old TVDB forum posts seems to mention this per a post I found from 2012.  

If you believe that the main players of other databases had it right (and their season-breaks do occur when Discovery big press releases announce returning episodes - as well as match season breaks on the old TV database sites) - then the snapshots of TVRage or TVMaze itself can be referred to revert changes.

And the takeaway is again to keep in mind what I mentioned now 28 days ago (with the change of the clock past midnight in my time zone) - changing old episode dates based on a current site -- even if the show site - can't be considered the end-all authority ... and also to consider this when looking at new users edits before approving more.  :-)

LOL, this is all pretty confusing, but I think i will take that old tvrage screenshot and rework the guide later tonight :)

eherberg wrote 3 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
LOL, this is all pretty confusing, but I think i will take that old tvrage screenshot and rework the guide later tonight :)

I suppose if you think of each year as a 'season' - then the old press items match up.  'Season 4' is the 4th year -- 'Season 5' is the 5th year, etc.  But that isn't how everybody was running it - including TVRage.

NathanGDenton wrote 3 years ago: 0

Can someone add eps 3-6 of falcon and winter soldier and eps 2-10 of mighty ducks game changers? It doesn't allow me to add them


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JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@eherberg wrote:
I suppose if you think of each year as a 'season' - then the old press items match up.  'Season 4' is the 4th year -- 'Season 5' is the 5th year, etc.  But that isn't how everybody was running it - including TVRage.

so I will do it as seasons like tvrage did :)


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TomSouthwell wrote 3 years ago: 1

@NathanGDenton wrote:
Can someone add eps 3-6 of falcon and winter soldier and eps 2-10 of mighty ducks game changers? It doesn't allow me to add them

It was already discussed in this thread that this episodes wouldn't be added in advance as episodes of Wandavision were been down voted before they had even aired. 

NathanGDenton wrote 3 years ago: 2

@TomSouthwell wrote:
It was already discussed in this thread that this episodes wouldn't be added in advance as episodes of Wandavision were been down voted before they had even aired. 

People are going to blindly upvote and downvote regardless of when it's added. By that logic no show should be put up before airdate. Couldn't you disable voting on unaired shows or block users who review bomb?

I use the service to track upcoming shows (also the app I use only updates a couple days a week) and I think a lot of users are similar


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TomSouthwell wrote 3 years ago: 1

This user is adding episodes with the runtime not the time slot (45 minutes) 

https://www.tvmaze.com/edit/model?episode_id=2046136


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JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@NathanGDenton wrote:
People are going to blindly upvote and downvote regardless of when it's added. By that logic no show should be put up before airdate. Couldn't you disable voting on unaired shows or block users who review bomb?

I use the service to track upcoming shows (also the app I use only updates a couple days a week) and I think a lot of users are similar

set to Ended.


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TomSouthwell wrote 3 years ago: 1

@TomSouthwell wrote:
This user is adding episodes with the runtime not the time slot (45 minutes) 

https://www.tvmaze.com/edit/model?episode_id=2046136

https://www.tvmaze.com/edit/log?Edit[creator_id]=31632

Not just on the one show either, they are doing it on every guide they are adding episodes to


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JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@NathanGDenton wrote:
People are going to blindly upvote and downvote regardless of when it's added. By that logic no show should be put up before airdate. Couldn't you disable voting on unaired shows or block users who review bomb?

I use the service to track upcoming shows (also the app I use only updates a couple days a week) and I think a lot of users are similar

I agree with you, we add upcoming episodes of almost every show, why should it be different here, the policy states if either the episode name or the date is known, we should add it. I will look now if one of those is confirmed and add the episodes.


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JuanArango wrote 3 years ago: 1

@TomSouthwell wrote:
https://www.tvmaze.com/edit/log?Edit[creator_id]=31632

Not just on the one show either, they are doing it on every guide they are adding episodes to

I am messaging them, but I think they are just adding the episodes and the runtime is set wrong in the main info.

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