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JuanArango wrote 4 years ago: 1

@RoseRed wrote:
I agree with TNT & Lady Shelley "Either all are special, or all are regular, because they're all exactly the same in relation to their corresponding shows."

I also tend to agree with what you are all been saying, so we can wait for Thomas and gazza or @kevin87 could undo his edit :)


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kevin87 wrote 4 years ago: 1

@tnt wrote:
In my opinion, for starters, since it was a collective decision no one should've single-handedly changed it without at least giving a heads-up first.

Secondly, An episode is a special either when an official source labels it as such; or when it does not designate an episode number to the episode while episodes on that show normally do have a number. Note that it only counts if an episode is explicitly labeled as special, using the term special somewhere in an announcement ("join us for a special episode of..") should be ignored. https://www.tvmaze.com/faq/15/episodes 

For me, nothing's changed since the last discussion. I still think it's weird to list one of the five Crisis episodes as special, and the rest as regular episodes. Either all are special, or all are regular, because they're all exactly the same in relation to their corresponding shows.

But the thing is that we're told if the network calls it a "special" and the next episode is a "season premiere" then it should be a special, but this is going against that rule. The significant specials infrastructure wasn't implemented at the time, which was why it was decided to put it as a normal episode. We're not talking about Crisis as a show by itself, we're talking about a Legends of Tomorrow episode that aired before, no matter how closely to, what CW specifically calls the "season premiere" in their press release regardless of what other shows refer to their corresponding Crisis episodes as. The same happened with Blackish this past season, the network specifically calls one a "special" and the other a "season premiere." I don't see how one is wrong and the other isn't.


Head
JuanArango wrote 4 years ago: 1

@kevin87 wrote:
But the thing is that we're told if the network calls it a "special" and the next episode is a "season premiere" then it should be a special, but this is going against that rule. The significant specials infrastructure wasn't implemented at the time, which was why it was decided to put it as a normal episode. We're not talking about Crisis as a show by itself, we're talking about a Legends of Tomorrow episode that aired before, no matter how closely to, what CW specifically calls the "season premiere" in their press release regardless of what other shows refer to their corresponding Crisis episodes as. The same happened with Blackish this past season, the network specifically calls one a "special" and the other a "season premiere." I don't see how one is wrong and the other isn't.

I think both sides have some good points, but only to have one crisis episode as a special and all other crisis episodes are listed as normal episodes is very weird. It is also weird to list the season premiere (which it is called in a press release) as the second episode. So I think we cannot win here. We just have to decide which "weirdness" we will choose :)

tnt wrote 4 years ago: 1

@kevin87 wrote:
But the thing is that we're told if the network calls it a "special" and the next episode is a "season premiere" then it should be a special,

But they're not calling it a special, do they? For what it worth, the pre-Crisis episode of Supergirl is called a mid-season finale. Yet we list Crisis: Part One as a regular episode, not special. Crisis episodes of Arrow and Batwoman were aired outside of their regular slot, and yet they are listed as regular episodes.

The significant specials infrastructure wasn't implemented at the time, which was why it was decided to put it as a normal episode.

No. The information released by the network was ambiguous, and the episode could be equally considered regular or special. Therefore we voted for a decision, which you suddenly decided to overrule.

The same happened with Blackish this past season, the network specifically calls one a "special" and the other a "season premiere." I don't see how one is wrong and the other isn't.

Yes. Specifically calls it a special, even in the episode name. Aside from that, one part of this special has a different premise, it's animated. As far as I remember, CW never called Crisis a special. They called it an "epic crossover event". And it's no different from any other crossover (or not) episode of any other show in Arrowverse.


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kevin87 wrote 4 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
I think both sides have some good points, but only to have one crisis episode as a special and all other crisis episodes are listed as normal episodes is very weird. It is also weird to list the season premiere (which it is called in a press release) as the second episode. So I think we cannot win here. We just have to decide which "weirdness" we will choose :)

It seems what's making it "weird" is how closely it aired to the season premiere. If it had aired in December or not even further out, would people still think it's weird?

@tnt wrote:
But they're not calling it a special, do they? For what it worth, the pre-Crisis episode of Supergirl is called a mid-season finale. Yet we list Crisis: Part One as a regular episode, not special. Crisis episodes of Arrow and Batwoman were aired outside of their regular slot, and yet they are listed as regular episodes.

No. The information released by the network was ambiguous, and the episode could be equally considered regular or special. Therefore we voted for a decision, which you suddenly decided to overrule.

Yes. Specifically calls it a special, even in the episode name. Aside from that, one part of this special has a different premise, it's animated. As far as I remember, CW never called Crisis a special. They called it an "epic crossover event". And it's no different from any other crossover (or not) episode of any other show in Arrowverse.

They're also not calling it the start of the season either. Calling the episode that airs on January 21st the "season premiere" is not ambiguous with their wording, so if the episode before Crisis is the previous season's finale, and the one after is the next season's officially stated premiere, how can Crisis be the first episode? You cite policy in favor of one thing but ignore it for the other. I saw multiple places calling Legends a special episode, though it seems that is due to CW calling the next episode the season premiere, or the press releases are no longer available. The other crossovers have specifically aired during the running season though, not outside of it... and had they been, they would also need to be specials. And had Crisis not had specific show level cast credits for each episode, it could've been it's own show. 

I will change it back if I have to, despite going against the press release as we are told takes precedence 2nd only to on screen data, but the wiki needs to be updated to explain that even though we now have a way to handle specials, we're going against policy with the numbering the season premiere as the 2nd episode.


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JuanArango wrote 4 years ago: 1

@kevin87 wrote:
It seems what's making it "weird" is how closely it aired to the season premiere. If it had aired in December or not even further out, would people still think it's weird?

They're also not calling it the start of the season either. Calling the episode that airs on January 21st the "season premiere" is not ambiguous with their wording, so if the episode before Crisis is the previous season's finale, and the one after is the next season's officially stated premiere, how can Crisis be the first episode? You cite policy in favor of one thing but ignore it for the other. I saw multiple places calling Legends a special episode, though it seems that is due to CW calling the next episode the season premiere, or the press releases are no longer available. The other crossovers have specifically aired during the running season though, not outside of it... and had they been, they would also need to be specials. And had Crisis not had specific show level cast credits for each episode, it could've been it's own show. 

I will change it back if I have to, despite going against the press release as we are told takes precedence 2nd only to on screen data, but the wiki needs to be updated to explain that even though we now have a way to handle specials, we're going against policy with the numbering the season premiere as the 2nd episode.

This is a really odd and unique situation, but back then we voted and the outcone was in favor for calling it the first episode. 

The handling of specials have changed since then but it seems that the majority is still in favor for being it the first episode.,so we should change it back. 

I know this is not perfect, but this is the most fair thing we can do. 

 


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kevin87 wrote 4 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
This is a really odd and unique situation, but back then we voted and the outcone was in favor for calling it the first episode. 

The handling of specials have changed since then but it seems that the majority is still in favor for being it the first episode.,so we should change it back. 

I know this is not perfect, but this is the most fair thing we can do. 

 

Could put it as episode 1 for the DVD order, unless you can't change a special to a normal episode in alt lists. I went to undo my edits but some have been reverted already, but Romeo V. Juliet: Dawn of Justness, Mr. Parker's Cul-De-Sac, and Mortal Khanbat are locked so I can't finish the job if I can't move those up an episode number. Bright side, nobody will be able to change them again now. I still think that now we have a better handling of specials, the wiki should be updated to somehow explain further that we're going against policy and not listing it as a significant special in favor of personal feelings despite "Meet the Legends" being officially called the first episode in press releases, because even though they can't edit it, it will likely be brought up here again as new users join the site. 

tnt wrote 4 years ago: 1

@kevin87 wrote:
Bright side, nobody will be able to change them again now.

We actually now have the ability to manually lock the season from the changes :)


Curating

Premium
Aidan wrote 4 years ago: 1

@TomSouthwell wrote:
Aren't the poor quality images been uploaded here against the sites policies? 

For a show from the 80's that aired in 4:3 and only have DVD releases this seem to be as good as it gets to me.


Head
JuanArango wrote 4 years ago: 1

@Aidan wrote:
For a show from the 80's that aired in 4:3 and only have DVD releases this seem to be as good as it gets to me.

I agree, the requirements are only for the new shows shown in HD quality.


Supporting
mad_man1983 wrote 4 years ago: 2

is there a way to connect crossover episodes? i'm on a three part crossover between Wizards of Waverly Place, The Suite Life on Deck and Hannah Montana, the dvd released with all 3 of the episodes are called Wizards on Deck with Hannah Montana, i have left comment under the episode of each part now so people see that its a three part crossover if they check the episode, but there should be a way to connect them maybe?

monoget wrote 4 years ago: 1

@JuanArango wrote:
Ahh ok, thx :) 

Thanks both... still don't know why I couldn't just clear the airdate myself... hey-ho Cheers :)

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