Consistency across Cast for Animated series

Also seems to be random starring characters here too:

https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/84/family-guy/cast

Meanwhile South Park, American Dad and Bob's Burgers all seem to have main characters listed only as stars regardless of who the voice actors are or who they appear as across the shows run. 

I would say a set policy for Animated shows might not be a bad idea, I know a lot of the cast I have added to the Simpsons has been the characters that the actors who voice the main Simpson family. I was trying to go by Actor/Cast policy and part of the issue with the Simpsons is that the actors who do the voices are just listed with the Simpson family voices first at the ending credits followed by the rest of the actors without stating starring, also, etc. On some occasions there are guest stars and they are listed as such in the ending credits.

 As for the number of times the old Jewish Guy has appeared in the show, currently that count is more than likely inaccurate as it was not that long ago I discovered which of the actors did his voice. 

  If it is going to be changed, I would suggest that All the Simpson family members be listed as Main Characters, that would mean, Bart, Lisa, Homer, Marge, Abraham Simpson, Patty And Selma, Maggie and Marges mother. The rest could be marked as guest stars representing reoccurring characters.

@TomSouthwell  The comment I made in the other post about Milhouse was not intended as a argument as such, it was intended as a comment on the shows character. I really dont care either way how he is classified as long as when I enter it, I do it right. I do think your right about a animated guideline being created because the way I read the current Cast episode policy, it does look like most of the characters voiced by the top main actors should be under main cast.

If a lot of the characters in the main cast are going to have to be moved, I would suggest the guest cast list where we add characters be modified by @david in the sites programming to contain a list of reoccurring characters with the check boxes that would be displayed like the main cast editing section. This would save having to enter a actor and characters name for every episode on the series like The Simpsons that has so many episodes. You run into this with the Anime as well, Inuyasha, One Piece, Narouto Shippuuden and so on. I have noticed that the majority of the Anime does not separate the stars and guest stars either.

IMO you overcomplicating things. Main vs guest was never a matter of the character's significance or a number of appearances. It depends only on how it credited. However, if on-screen data is ambiguous or inconclusive (as it often happens with animated shows), you could always turn to the next data source in the order of precedence defined by the policy.

Each episodic press-release for the Simpsons contain the voice cast section:

Voice Cast: Dan Castellaneta as Homer Simpson; Julie Kavner as Marge Simpson; Nancy Cartwright as Bart Simpson and Nelson; Yeardley Smith as Lisa Simpson; Hank Azaria as Moe; Harry Shearer as Skinner; Tress MacNeille as Dolph; Pamela Hayden as Milhouse; Harry Shearer as Flanders

Here's your main cast, the rest of the characters are guests.

@tnt wrote:
IMO you overcomplicating things. Main vs guest was never a matter of the character's significance or a number of appearances. It depends only on how it credited. However, if on-screen data is ambiguous or inconclusive (as it often happens with animated shows), you could always turn to the next data source in the order of precedence defined by the policy.

Each episodic press-release for the Simpsons contain the voice cast section:

Voice Cast: Dan Castellaneta as Homer Simpson; Julie Kavner as Marge Simpson; Nancy Cartwright as Bart Simpson and Nelson; Yeardley Smith as Lisa Simpson; Hank Azaria as Moe; Harry Shearer as Skinner; Tress MacNeille as Dolph; Pamela Hayden as Milhouse; Harry Shearer as Flanders

Here's your main cast, the rest of the characters are guests.

But do we have press releases for over 700 episodes available? 

I think that's probably more complicated, the name of the show/original opening credits defines who's the main cast - Bart, Lisa, Homer, Marge and Maggie. 

Also I guess that further complicates other guides if we are then following press releases if every star is credited for every role they portray in a press release for Family Guy or Bob's Burgers too. 

@drosso46561 wrote:
I would say a set policy for Animated shows might not be a bad idea, I know a lot of the cast I have added to the Simpsons has been the characters that the actors who voice the main Simpson family. I was trying to go by Actor/Cast policy and part of the issue with the Simpsons is that the actors who do the voices are just listed with the Simpson family voices first at the ending credits followed by the rest of the actors without stating starring, also, etc. On some occasions there are guest stars and they are listed as such in the ending credits.

 As for the number of times the old Jewish Guy has appeared in the show, currently that count is more than likely inaccurate as it was not that long ago I discovered which of the actors did his voice. 

  If it is going to be changed, I would suggest that All the Simpson family members be listed as Main Characters, that would mean, Bart, Lisa, Homer, Marge, Abraham Simpson, Patty And Selma, Maggie and Marges mother. The rest could be marked as guest stars representing reoccurring characters.

@TomSouthwell  The comment I made in the other post about Milhouse was not intended as a argument as such, it was intended as a comment on the shows character. I really dont care either way how he is classified as long as when I enter it, I do it right. I do think your right about a animated guideline being created because the way I read the current Cast episode policy, it does look like most of the characters voiced by the top main actors should be under main cast.

If a lot of the characters in the main cast are going to have to be moved, I would suggest the guest cast list where we add characters be modified by @david in the sites programming to contain a list of reoccurring characters with the check boxes that would be displayed like the main cast editing section. This would save having to enter a actor and characters name for every episode on the series like The Simpsons that has so many episodes. You run into this with the Anime as well, Inuyasha, One Piece, Narouto Shippuuden and so on. I have noticed that the majority of the Anime does not separate the stars and guest stars either.

Marge's Mum - Jacqueline Bouvier 

41 appearances out of over 700 episodes

We currently have the Old Jewish Guy added to one episode. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
But do we have press releases for over 700 episodes available? 

Do we need them all?

I think that's probably more complicated, the name of the show/original opening credits defines who's the main cast - Bart, Lisa, Homer, Marge and Maggie. 

Defines how? The show does not have opening credits for the cast, does it? As for the Simpsons family, according to FOX it also includes Patty, Selma and Grampa https://web.archive.org/web/20000511004024/http://thesimpsons.com/frameset.html
The ending credits, however, include six actors as starring: Castellaneta, Kavner, Cartwright, Smith, Shearer, and Azaria (starting season 3). So in any case, at least one character from each of the actors should be listed in the main cast section.

Also I guess that further complicates other guides if we are then following press releases if every star is credited for every role they portray in a press release for Family Guy or Bob's Burgers too. 

Are they though?

Family Guy:
Voice Cast: Seth MacFarlane as Peter, Stewie and Brian; Alex Borstein as Lois; Seth Green as Chris; Mila Kunis as Meg.

Bob's Burgers:
Voice Cast: H. Jon Benjamin as Bob; Dan Mintz as Tina; Eugene Mirman as Gene; John Roberts as Linda; Kristen Schaal as Louise

@tnt wrote:
Do we need them all?

Yes if we've had over 300 episodes with cast added incorrectly, and that's just guessing off the Milhouse credits. 

Defines how? The show does not have opening credits for the cast, does it? As for the Simpsons family, according to FOX it also includes Patty, Selma and Grampa https://web.archive.org/web/20000511004024/http://thesimpsons.com/frameset.html
The ending credits, however, include six actors as starring: Castellaneta, Kavner, Cartwright, Smith, Shearer, and Azaria (starting season 3). So in any case, at least one character from each of the actors should be listed in the main cast section.

The opening credits don't mention any stars. So the guides in as much of a gray area as any other animated series that either list every character as a star, such as the Marvel animations primarily did. 

I agree with at least one character as a star, I don't agree that we have a character who may appear once across a season and say the words "Oh Yeah" be credited as a star of the episode. Then not appear at all in the next season then reappear for one episode in the next season. 

Are they though?

Family Guy:
Voice Cast: Seth MacFarlane as Peter, Stewie and Brian; Alex Borstein as Lois; Seth Green as Chris; Mila Kunis as Meg.

Bob's Burgers:
Voice Cast: H. Jon Benjamin as Bob; Dan Mintz as Tina; Eugene Mirman as Gene; John Roberts as Linda; Kristen Schaal as Louise

I hadn't checked any press releases, I just made an assumption if fox listed the Simpsons in one way the other shows would be the same. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
Yes if we've had over 300 episodes with cast added incorrectly, and that's just guessing off the Milhouse credits. 

Futon has an archive of the last 17 seasons. The rest I suppose could be found using the Wayback Machine.

The opening credits don't mention any stars. So the guides in as much of a gray area as any other animated series that either list every character as a star, such as the Marvel animations primarily did. 

They list voice actors, with a clear separation between main and guest/supporting voices. So the on-screen credits give you the idea, what actors belong to the main cast of the show, and the press-release will elaborate, which character roles are considered principal for each of the main voice talents. 
A+B=C

I agree with at least one character as a star, I don't agree that we have a character who may appear once across a season and say the words "Oh Yeah" be credited as a star of the episode. Then not appear at all in the next season then reappear for one episode in the next season. 

No one said it should be some random character. Again, a press release has an entry for each of the main voice talents with the character(s) which are considered main. 

I hadn't checked any press releases, I just made an assumption if fox listed the Simpsons in one way the other shows would be the same. 

Here's an example for the Marvel show:
"Marvel's Spider-Man" voice cast includes: Robbie Daymond ("Bread Winners," "Get Blake") as Spider-Man, Max Mittleman as Harry Osborn ("One-Punch Man," "Transformers: Robots in Disguise"), Nadji Jeter as Miles Morales ("Jessie," "Kirby Buckets"), Melanie Minichino ("Blaze and the Monster Machine," "Mr. Peabody and Sherman") as Anya Corazon, Fred Tatasciore ("Marvel's Avengers Assemble," "Marvel's Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H.") as Max Modell, Laura Bailey ("DragonBall Z," "Marvel's Avengers Assemble") as Gwen Stacy, Nancy Linari ("The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest," "The Addams Family") as Aunt May, Patton Oswalt ("Ratatouille," "Pickle and Peanut") as Uncle Ben, Scott Menville ("Teen Titans," "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles") as Doc Ock, John DiMaggio ("Clarence," "Samurai Jack") as The Jackal, Alastair Duncan ("The Batman," "Final Fantasy XIV") as Vulture, and Marvel's very own chief creative officer Joe Quesada, who is also executive producing the series, as the coffee shop owner Joe.

I suppose at least one press release which has a clear list of the main cast could be found for each contemporary animated show.

@tnt wrote:
Futon has an archive of the last 17 seasons. The rest I suppose could be found using the Wayback Machine.l

So going back to my original example. Since Paul Soles, Paul Kligman and Peg Dixon were the only three actors credited in every episode of: 

https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/4107/spider-man 

Even if they played a major role or said one line as the characters they played - should they always have been added as main cast? 

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/37653/paul-soles

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/86897/paul-kligman 

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/86898/peg-dixon

I asked at the time and was told to just add Spider-Man as the titular character 

They list voice actors, with a clear separation between main and guest/supporting voices. So the on-screen credits give you the idea, what actors belong to the main cast of the show, and the press-release will elaborate, which character roles are considered principal for each of the main voice talents. 
A+B=C

No one said it should be some random character. Again, a press release has an entry for each of the main voice talents with the character(s) which are considered main. 

Here's an example for the Marvel show:
"Marvel's Spider-Man" voice cast includes: Robbie Daymond ("Bread Winners," "Get Blake") as Spider-Man, Max Mittleman as Harry Osborn ("One-Punch Man," "Transformers: Robots in Disguise"), Nadji Jeter as Miles Morales ("Jessie," "Kirby Buckets"), Melanie Minichino ("Blaze and the Monster Machine," "Mr. Peabody and Sherman") as Anya Corazon, Fred Tatasciore ("Marvel's Avengers Assemble," "Marvel's Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H.") as Max Modell, Laura Bailey ("DragonBall Z," "Marvel's Avengers Assemble") as Gwen Stacy, Nancy Linari ("The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest," "The Addams Family") as Aunt May, Patton Oswalt ("Ratatouille," "Pickle and Peanut") as Uncle Ben, Scott Menville ("Teen Titans," "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles") as Doc Ock, John DiMaggio ("Clarence," "Samurai Jack") as The Jackal, Alastair Duncan ("The Batman," "Final Fantasy XIV") as Vulture, and Marvel's very own chief creative officer Joe Quesada, who is also executive producing the series, as the coffee shop owner Joe.

Joe Quesada appears three times in the whole of the shows run. Again I did ask in the forums and was told to just use the titular character as the main character. The end credits list every cast member. Robbie Daymond was always at the top of the list and then the rest of the cast appeared underneath in alphabetical order of their last names, regardless of whether they were in that press release or not. 

If we're now saying press releases should be used I have a ton of shows that would need revisiting as I added the cast as I was told to at the time or made an assumption of since a similar show had cast added in a certain way. 

I suppose at least one press release which has a clear list of the main cast could be found for each contemporary animated show.

My point is still standing I believe as we are just throwing up more and more examples of some guides following one rule and other guides following another. Some sort of policy needs deciding on and then whichever guides have then had incorrect data added will need revisiting. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
So going back to my original example. Since Paul Soles, Paul Kligman and Peg Dixon were the only three actors credited in every episode of: 

https://www.tvmaze.com/shows/4107/spider-man 

Even if they played a major role or said one line as the characters they played - should they always have been added as main cast? 

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/37653/paul-soles

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/86897/paul-kligman 

https://www.tvmaze.com/people/86898/peg-dixon

I asked at the time and was told to just add Spider-Man as the titular character 

Do you have another data source, which contradicts that? 

Joe Quesada appears three times in the whole of the shows run. Again I did ask in the forums and was told to just use the titular character as the main character. If we're now saying press releases should be used I have a ton of shows that need revisiting as I added the cast as I was told to at the time or made an assumption of since a similar show had cast added in a certain way. 

After the on-screen credits, the press release always had the highest priority. Always. It's not like I just invented this.
However, if you don't have a press release, and not a single one of the rest of the valid data sources has any information, then the individual ruling for this show could be discussed and the decision written in the show's wiki. Like https://www.tvmaze.com/showwiki/view?id=73 for example.

My point is still standing I believe as we are just throwing up more and more examples of some guides following one rule and other guides following another. Some sort of policy needs deciding on and then whichever guides have then had incorrect data added will need revisiting. 

I honestly don't know, what rules are you talking about. The policy has a list of valid data sources in the order of their preference. If the topmost source doesn't have enough information, you turn to the next best one, and you continue doing so until you find the answer you look for. If none of the sources have the answer, then you turn to forums.
As simple as that.

@tnt wrote:
Do you have another data source, which contradicts that? 

Aside from the actual on screen data, I just used various other data sites to add the uncredited actors? Their isn't any official press sites or releases from decades ago to rely on for these guides. 

When I asked about adding each character the three actors play as stars, I was told to just add Spider-Man as the main star, I followed that system for various guides in the earlier decades, as that's what I'd been told to do. 

Here is the discussion on the Spider-Man guide https://www.tvmaze.com/threads/4357/spider-man-1967-ambiguous-cast-accreditation 

After the on-screen credits, the press release always had the highest priority. Always. It's not like I just invented this.
However, if you don't have a press release, and not a single one of the rest of the valid data sources has any information, then the individual ruling for this show could be discussed and the decision written in the show's wiki. Like https://www.tvmaze.com/showwiki/view?id=73 for example.

I honestly don't know, what rules are you talking about. The policy has a list of valid data sources in the order of their preference. If the topmost source doesn't have enough information, you turn to the next best one, and you continue doing so until you find the answer you look for. If none of the sources have the answer, then you turn to forums.
As simple as that.

I'm saying the rules are in place yes and I understand that. But they aren't been followed as it's too ambiguous to apply. We could have hundreds of incorrect credits on The Simpsons because the forums weren't consulted when users started adding every character as a main character if one of those six actors played them. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
Aside from the actual on screen data, I just used various other data sites to add the uncredited actors? Their isn't any official press sites or releases from decades ago to rely on for these guides. 

When I asked about adding each character the three actors play as stars, I was told to just add Spider-Man as the main star, I followed that system for various guides in the earlier decades, as that's what I'd been told to do. 

Here is the discussion on the Spider-Man guide https://www.tvmaze.com/threads/4357/spider-man-1967-ambiguous-cast-accreditation 

Well, you did the best you could. I don't know, what else could be expected? :) Maybe a new data source will arise at some point, which make things more clear, but until then we have what we have. The only other thing we could do is to make a note in the show's wiki with a link to the discussion. 

I'm saying the rules are in place yes and I understand that. But they aren't been followed as it's too ambiguous to apply. We could have hundreds of incorrect credits on The Simpsons because the forums weren't consulted when users started adding every character as a main character if one of those six actors played them. 

Well, what's the point then of discussing the new rules, if they probably won't be followed as well? )) The existing ones don't look ambiguous to me, but other users apparently have a hard time understanding them.

Maybe some of the existing things just need to be spelled out? Like what I said above, about going through sources one by one from top to bottom.

@tnt wrote:
Well, you did the best you could. I don't know, what else could be expected? :) Maybe a new data source will arise at some point, which make things more clear, but until then we have what we have. The only other thing we could do is to make a note in the show's wiki with a link to the discussion. 

Well, what's the point then of discussing the new rules, if they probably won't be followed as well? )) The existing ones don't look ambiguous to me, but other users apparently have a hard time understanding them.

Maybe some of the existing things just need to be spelled out? Like what I said above, about going through sources one by one from top to bottom.

It will be alot of work but I can start having a look next time I have some time free. If this is how everyone else would want the guide handled as well? I'm assuming the additional few characters on Family Guy and Teddy on Bob's Burgers need changing to guest cast credits? 

I am completely with tnt here, we exactly follow the sources the policy gives us, if none of them is usable then we make a unique decision for such a show and create a show wiki.

@TomSouthwell if there are characters like Nurse 1 or Worker 2 or whatever, who only appear for 1 or 2 episodes, they should not be in the main cast.

@JuanArango wrote:
I am completely with tnt here, we exactly follow the sources the policy gives us, if none of them is usable then we make a unique decision for such a show and create a show wiki.

@TomSouthwell if there are characters like Nurse 1 or Worker 2 or whatever, who only appear for 1 or 2 episodes, they should not be in the main cast.

That's very contradictory from the original conversation I've linked to above and to what @tnt is saying. Because if the Fox press release is saying Worker 2 needs to be a star, that's what I'm been told to add them as. If the fox press release is saying the character Old Jewish Guy is a star, do we add him as a star or as a guest cast member. 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
That's very contradictory from the original conversation I've linked to above and to what @tnt is saying. Because if the Fox press release is saying Worker 2 needs to be a star, that's what I'm been told to add them as. If the fox press release is saying the character Old Jewish Guy is a star, do we add him as a star or as a guest cast member. 

I did not mean it that way, I meant if someone has added characters like Nurse 1, 2, 3 falsely to the main cast. if the press release says its a main cast, then we add it of course.

I think part of the confusion is the voice actors voicing multiple characters per episode. I'm willing to bet a lot of the issues with something like The Simpsons is Dan Castellaneta voicing Homer, as well as two or three other characters. Since Dan is a main voice actor, all of the characters were added as a main as well, regardless of how prominent the second (or third or fourth) character was in the episode. 

So I think what @TomSouthwell is asking for is some direction on what to do for these old animated shows where there is no press release or any other information except what might or might not be listed on screen as well as some directed policy for current animated shows as to what is a main vs supporting/guest character (not voice actor) so there is better consistency. 

@LadyShelley wrote:
I think part of the confusion is the voice actors voicing multiple characters per episode. I'm willing to bet a lot of the issues with something like The Simpsons is Dan Castellaneta voicing Homer, as well as two or three other characters. Since Dan is a main voice actor, all of the characters were added as a main as well, regardless of how prominent the second (or third or fourth) character was in the episode. 

So I think what @TomSouthwell is asking for is some direction on what to do for these old animated shows where there is no press release or any other information except what might or might not be listed on screen as well as some directed policy for current animated shows as to what is a main vs supporting/guest character (not voice actor) so there is better consistency. 

This was definately what I was after yes on both counts :). 

@TomSouthwell wrote:
This was definately what I was after yes on both counts :). 

yes, but if there is no press release or anything else, who decides which character to add as main or not? This is impossible to put into a policy as everyone will have a different opinion :)