You're the worst 1-hour Season premiere, is it two episodes or one?

Gadfly wrote:
Yep, I understood what you meant. Like I said, it's a long-standing problem. :(

But if the network does the episode count based on counting the back-to-back episodes as 1 instead of 2, TVMaze would be off, too. Then we'd have TVMaze basically saying, "I'm sorry, you're wrong, it's actually 102 episodes because there were a couple of 'back to back' episodes over the shows run and they are only double episodes, not singles.

Basically, TVMaze is going to be wrong no matter which it uses, because there's no consistency between every network. I understand that you're saying TVMaze will be wrong in certain instances given the current criteria. But TVMaze would be wrong somewhere if they changed the criteria to what you suggest, too.

If the networks did count back to back episodes as 1 instead of 2, surely they wouldn't have two production numbers for the episodes just the one? are their actual examples of the networks doing this? i have no idea if they do or not, as i have only ever seen it done the other way.

Hallmark Channel's Goodwitch often releases 2-hour episodes that only have one production number, but it's counted as two episodes by the network. It airs as a single continuous episode or special, but each hour is counted as a different episode in most other ways, including things like episode order numbers, and the DVD and Amazon releases.

I think what happens is that a series will be green lit for production of a certain number of episodes. And if they want to make a special that's twice the usual length, that counts as 2 episodes. It happens like that usually from what I can see. It doesn't always mean that the Network considers it two episodes or that it has two different production numbers.

To answer your question, it's common for networks to consider episodes with two production numbers as a single episode in most ways. This happens a lot with Disney Channel. I'll try and find a good example.

OK I found a good example. The Stuck In The Middle season 2 premiere is considered a single episode by the network in all respects. However it has two production numbers 201 and 202:

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/disneychannel/shows/stuck-in-the-middle/episodes/stuck-in-the-waterpark-the-movie/

The above link only shows 201 as a production number, but notice that 202 is missing from the list. That's because in actuality there were two production numbers. The following link shows that it has two production numbers:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20170127disney03/

Personally I think the current rules are working just fine.

Don't forget that networks just as often order xx hours of a show, and not necessarily a specific number of episodes.

And with that in mind it's also worth mentioning that production numbers can simply indicate how much money that's been allocated to create that episode. (twice as long, twice the money).

RaveDave wrote:
Going by the site policy it should be listed as one episode, but IMO this is the one policy on this site that should be changed. FXX has ordered 13 episodes of You're the Worst for season 4, but on TVmaze it will now be listed as 12 which is inaccurate, IMO if there are separate production numbers for these 'back to back' episodes they should be listed as two episodes no matter if there is only one title block used.

While I realize the application of "You're the Worst" is consistent with TVMaze policy, I agree with RaveDave that this is one policy worth reconsideration. If someone knows they're looking for episode 10 (say, from watching Netflix), and they come to TVMaze, they'll find episode 10 listed as episode 9. I understand why TVMaze has the policy, however when it results in TVMaze transposed from nearly everywhere else, I don't think the benefit of our consistency is outweighed by the confusion for users.

The reason the credits on screen don't mention part 1 and 2 is because the same person wrote and directed both episodes... but they're pretty distinct episodes and aren't really even connected. Jimmy is the sole focus of episode 1, none of the other main cast even appear and it ends with him driving back home, and then episode 2 seems to be happening during the same time frame as episode 1 but focuses on the Gretchen, Edgar, and Lindsay and Jimmy never appears. I'd personally say they should be separate, but that's not the policy here.

Oddly enough, I feel like The Good Place season 2 episode 1 and 2 should actually be one episode. They're both directed by the same person, but written by different people but the way the episodes are set up, there is no clear end to episode 1 and beginning to episode 2. They take the four humans and show the 'first day' in The Good Place for each of them from start to finish separately and then come together during the party. It's hard to explain but the only part of the episodes that aren't shown in both is the end of episode 2. Yet this is split into two episodes here when even nbc.com has them as one episode.

So, the policy can help but also hurt.

For The Good Place, they credit the writers as Chapter 14 and Chapter 15, so 2 episodes seems correct.

pentar wrote:
For The Good Place, they credit the writers as Chapter 14 and Chapter 15, so 2 episodes seems correct.

I believe kevin87's point is that if you watch the Good Place premiere there's no place where it clearly transitions from one chapter to the next. In fact the entire episode seems like one episode in that it has the same theme throughout the episode. Which is the opposite of the You're The Worst episode we're discussing. But I agree that since they called it Chapters 14 and 15 on screen, that TVmaze needs to list it as two episodes, even though it's anyone's guess where Chapter 14 ends and Chapter 15 begins.

Speaking of Good Place, I like Kristen Bell and Ted Danson but I don't like this show that much ever since the big reveal at the end of Season 1. I'm going to keep watching just to see what happens next but I'm not liking it so far.

I would also say it was two different episodes because the TVMA logo pops up usually after the adverts, but if it pops up without an advert in between (like it did with this), it obviously means two separate episodes.
Another example is the latest season's finale: http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/324/masterchef/episodes
I can give more examples.

I don't see the benefit in being the rebel here when newsletters, talks and official sites all pointing to the season having 13 episodes or the premiere being two episodes back-to-back. TVMaze users are just going to be sent on a hunt to find the "hidden" episode later on.

If we've settled on the first episode being 60 minutes, then the cast is incomplete, the summary only describes the first half hour and I have no clue whether the guest cast is correct.

pentar wrote:
If we've settled on the first episode being 60 minutes, then the cast is incomplete, the summary only describes the first half hour and I have no clue whether the guest cast is correct.

I'm not sure about the complete guest cast, when it was separate, I used the FX stream to do the episode-specific guest cast/co-star for each one (since the TV airing combined both end credits) but something's up with it now and won't let me sign in with my cable provider saying I don't have the channel but I do so somebody else will have to double check that. I put all 4 cast members on the cast appearance though, since when they were separate Jimmy was only on part 1 and the other three were only on part 2.

pentar wrote:
If we've settled on the first episode being 60 minutes, then the cast is incomplete, the summary only describes the first half hour and I have no clue whether the guest cast is correct.

I moved all guest cast from episode 2 to episode 1 (when we did list it as two parts), summary i have no idea about.

Thomas wrote:
I moved all guest cast from episode 2 to episode 1 (when we did list it as two parts), summary i have no idea about.

lol

somebody already splitted episode back in two parts. you should've create wiki :)

tnt wrote:
lol

somebody already splitted episode back in two parts. you should've create wiki :)

Jesus christ, you gotta be kidding me? Can someone revert his changes? Bit hard to do so on a phone.

Thomas wrote:
Jesus christ, you gotta be kidding me? Can someone revert his changes? Bit hard to do so on a phone.

A bit later. On the phone myself :)

tunefind wrote:
While I realize the application of "You're the Worst" is consistent with TVMaze policy, I agree with RaveDave that this is one policy worth reconsideration. If someone knows they're looking for episode 10 (say, from watching Netflix), and they come to TVMaze, they'll find episode 10 listed as episode 9. I understand why TVMaze has the policy, however when it results in TVMaze transposed from nearly everywhere else, I don't think the benefit of our consistency is outweighed by the confusion for users.

I hate when things here get transposed from other sources too, because as you said it can and does cause confusion. As a long term goal it would be worth trying to solve these kinds of problems. But as pointed out, right now there isn't any method that would be 100% fool proof. Even if we followed exactly what the network's official sites were saying for every show, you have the problem of things getting transposed with other sites like theTVDB (or even the network's own alternate sites. I've seen this happen.). So the problem remains no matter what.

TVmaze's policy about specials also causes transposition since Networks will often say that an episode is "special" in a TV promo even when it's considered a regular episode by the network.

It looks like someone just changed the names and summaries of all the episodes this time, not the numbers. These things are grayed out now.

However some cast members were added after the names were change which suggests that cast and crew all need to be rechecked.

dpratt wrote:
It looks like someone just changed the names and summaries of all the episodes this time, not the numbers. These things are grayed out now.

However some cast members were added after the names were change which suggests that cast and crew all need to be rechecked.

If I got some time later on I will check it.

dpratt wrote:
It looks like someone just changed the names and summaries of all the episodes this time, not the numbers. These things are grayed out now.

However some cast members were added after the names were change which suggests that cast and crew all need to be rechecked.

Yeah, the guest cast looks all mixed up now... like how Janet Varney and Todd Robert Anderson were on the episode "This Is Just Marketing", which was listed as episode 3 here, so now they're under "Odysseus" and Colin Ferguson was on "Odysseus" but now he's listed under "It's Been (2)" and it's all screwed up. I think at this point if "It's Been" is going to keep being separated and joined, we need to just either split them into Part 1 and Part 2 so it fits with other places so people stop messing with it, or we put it as one episode and do a wiki and/or completely lock the joined episode (if possible) once it's 100% correct so nobody can change or delete the episode(s) except the highest rank here. I was able to go through and get the complete credits for them all again, as well as the descriptions from FX's website. So, for posterity, here is the full list in case this keeps happening:

4x01 - It's Been - Part 1
After proposing to Gretchen and immediately abandoning her on a hilltop, Jimmy has gone into hiding in the middle of nowhere in an attempt to escape reality. Reality does not comply.

cast appearance: Chris Geere

guest starring:
Raymond J. Barry as Burt
Dee Wallace as Gail

co-starring:
Betsy Baker as Librarian
Patrick Birkett as Old Man
Ronnie Clark as Heathcliff Rothchild III
Heather McCallum as KJ
Andrew Thacher as Father
Cleo Fraser as Girl
Braxton Herda as Kid

4x02 - It's Been - Part 2
Gretchen takes the first baby steps toward reconstructing her life. Meanwhile, Edgar and Lindsay struggle to find normalcy in their new post-Jimmy/Gretchen world.

cast appearance: Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Stephen Schneider as Ty Wyland
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Jenn An as Tara
Stephen Ellis as Carl
Niko Nicotera as Jeff
Kathleen Rose Perkins as Priscilla

co-starring:
Alexi Stavrou as Handsome Man
Steven Cox as Actor

4x03 - Odysseus
After Jimmy returns to Los Angeles, he attempts to make amends with Gretchen, leading to their first confrontation. Lindsay and Edgar enjoy their new friends-with-benefits arrangement.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Stephen Schneider as Ty Wyland
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Colin Ferguson as Boone

co-starring:
Anthony A. Kung as Karaoke Singer
Steve Myung as Karaoke Singer #2
Ashli Haynes as Jaclyn

4x04 - This Is Just Marketing
Jimmy learns that his literary novel is being marketed as erotica. While doing Vernon's podcast, Gretchen realizes she's been letting Jimmy off easy. Lindsay learns for the first time that she's capable of love.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Janet Varney as Becca
Todd Robert Anderson as Vernon
Jenn An as Tara
Niko Nicotera as Jeff
Merrin Dungey as Candace
Rightor Doyle as Walter
Kathleen Rose Perkins as Priscilla

co-starring:
Colin Campbell as Barfly
Joan Blair as Lindse Fletcher (Female Author)
Jill Lynne Johnson as Audience Member
Jackie Michele Johnson as Girl
Brittini London as Another Girl
Jesi Le Rae as Model

4x05 - Fog of War, Bro
Gretchen has moved back into the house and plays mind games with Jimmy, sabotaging his first interview for the new book. Seeing an opportunity in Gretchen's return to the house, Edgar and Lindsay plot to get Jimmy and Gretchen back together.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Merrin Dungey as Candace
Sas Goldberg as Genevieve
Colin Ferguson as Boone

co-starring:
Cody Renee Cameron as Tawny Lawns
Leandro Dottavio as Shane Hardy
Tyrone Emanuel as Garth Murmur

kevin87 wrote:
Yeah, the guest cast looks all mixed up now... like how Janet Varney and Todd Robert Anderson were on the episode "This Is Just Marketing", which was listed as episode 3 here, so now they're under "Odysseus" and Colin Ferguson was on "Odysseus" but now he's listed under "It's Been (2)" and it's all screwed up. I think at this point if "It's Been" is going to keep being separated and joined, we need to just either split them into Part 1 and Part 2 so it fits with other places so people stop messing with it, or we put it as one episode and do a wiki and/or completely lock the joined episode (if possible) once it's 100% correct so nobody can change or delete the episode(s) except the highest rank here. I was able to go through and get the complete credits for them all again, as well as the descriptions from FX's website. So, for posterity, here is the full list in case this keeps happening:

4x01 - It's Been - Part 1
After proposing to Gretchen and immediately abandoning her on a hilltop, Jimmy has gone into hiding in the middle of nowhere in an attempt to escape reality. Reality does not comply.

cast appearance: Chris Geere

guest starring:
Raymond J. Barry as Burt
Dee Wallace as Gail

co-starring:
Betsy Baker as Librarian
Patrick Birkett as Old Man
Ronnie Clark as Heathcliff Rothchild III
Heather McCallum as KJ
Andrew Thacher as Father
Cleo Fraser as Girl
Braxton Herda as Kid

4x02 - It's Been - Part 2
Gretchen takes the first baby steps toward reconstructing her life. Meanwhile, Edgar and Lindsay struggle to find normalcy in their new post-Jimmy/Gretchen world.

cast appearance: Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Stephen Schneider as Ty Wyland
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Jenn An as Tara
Stephen Ellis as Carl
Niko Nicotera as Jeff
Kathleen Rose Perkins as Priscilla

co-starring:
Alexi Stavrou as Handsome Man
Steven Cox as Actor

4x03 - Odysseus
After Jimmy returns to Los Angeles, he attempts to make amends with Gretchen, leading to their first confrontation. Lindsay and Edgar enjoy their new friends-with-benefits arrangement.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Stephen Schneider as Ty Wyland
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Colin Ferguson as Boone

co-starring:
Anthony A. Kung as Karaoke Singer
Steve Myung as Karaoke Singer #2
Ashli Haynes as Jaclyn

4x04 - This Is Just Marketing
Jimmy learns that his literary novel is being marketed as erotica. While doing Vernon's podcast, Gretchen realizes she's been letting Jimmy off easy. Lindsay learns for the first time that she's capable of love.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Janet Varney as Becca
Todd Robert Anderson as Vernon
Jenn An as Tara
Niko Nicotera as Jeff
Merrin Dungey as Candace
Rightor Doyle as Walter
Kathleen Rose Perkins as Priscilla

co-starring:
Colin Campbell as Barfly
Joan Blair as Lindse Fletcher (Female Author)
Jill Lynne Johnson as Audience Member
Jackie Michele Johnson as Girl
Brittini London as Another Girl
Jesi Le Rae as Model

4x05 - Fog of War, Bro
Gretchen has moved back into the house and plays mind games with Jimmy, sabotaging his first interview for the new book. Seeing an opportunity in Gretchen's return to the house, Edgar and Lindsay plot to get Jimmy and Gretchen back together.

cast appearance: Chris Geere, Aya Cash, Desmin Borges, Kether Donohue

guest starring:
Brandon Mychal Smith as Sam
Darrell Britt-Gibson as Shitstain
Merrin Dungey as Candace
Sas Goldberg as Genevieve
Colin Ferguson as Boone

co-starring:
Cody Renee Cameron as Tawny Lawns
Leandro Dottavio as Shane Hardy
Tyrone Emanuel as Garth Murmur

Thx alot, but It's been is ONE episode and not two parts.