If someone does not appear, but is credited might also depend on the contract they have.
wmulder wrote:
If someone does not appear, but is credited might also depend on the contract they have.
Very true, especially for main cast players, there are all sorts of SAG rules for how someone is credited.
For guest cast, there can also be the issue of the person is in the episode, but the scene(s) is cut, the credit is still there, either because there was a miscommunication or more likely, contractual rules for crediting.
LadyShelley wrote:
Very true, especially for main cast players, there are all sorts of SAG rules for how someone is credited.For guest cast, there can also be the issue of the person is in the episode, but the scene(s) is cut, the credit is still there, either because there was a miscommunication or more likely, contractual rules for crediting.
That happened with Friday Night Lights, Dana Wheeler-Nicholson was credited as guest starring in an episode but then she never appeared, then the following episode showed that scene as part of their previously on stuff. Typically shows just have one opening credit for the whole season and will credit people regardless of appearance and then the guest star stuff will be after the credits at the top of the episode but it's getting more common that shows have episode specific starring credits. If we don't put a cast member as appearing even if they're credited then I'd assume we'd also not put them as guest star unless they actually appear in the episode as it aired on TV.
david wrote:
I'll add the new guest cast type of "credit only" then :)
thank you :)
david wrote:
I'll add the new guest cast type of "credit only" then :)
And what are we gonna do with main cast, which are credited but not appearing?
tnt wrote:
And what are we gonna do with main cast, which are credited but not appearing?
We just do not tick the box, like we always did.
tnt wrote:
And what are we gonna do with main cast, which are credited but not appearing?
Main cast has always been clear, hasn't it?
A Cast Appearance can be used to indicate which of the show's Main Cast members actually appeared in the episode.
david wrote:
Main cast has always been clear, hasn't it?A Cast Appearance can be used to indicate which of the show's Main Cast members actually appeared in the episode.
I know it. I just don't get, why the guest cast should be any different? Not appearing – not listed, why complicate a matter?
I completely agree with TNT here. Why should this option even be added if it is not worked out properly? Why only give this option to ''guest cast'' and not to ''main cast'' if it is going to be implemented? It should be the exact same like it is with main cast. If the actor is credited, but is actually not playing within this episode, we don't credit it them. You are simply making it more complicated and even more misleading.
And if credit only would be implemented, it should be available to both main and guest actors and with a proper credit system on the actor's page. Check example in the following link, otherwise some users might be hyped for an actor in that episode (when they do check that actor's page) and be disappointed at the end as it was only a credit only... http://imgur.com/a/PCUP0
This system is in use by imdb and it is not worked out properly too and even contributers usually disregard this option at that site by either leaving them out or listing them for the full credits. It will only be more chaotic and many users will not use it the way it should be used or even can remember whether a very small co guest role was actually appearing or not.
The problem is that at TVMaze, the Show Star and Guest Star systems aren't set up the same. So while I'd like the appearing/credit-only system to be the same for both, it would presumably require more coding effort than simply adding a new category to the existing Guest Star types list.
i.e., we check off Main Stars for episodes of shows, and they originate on the Show Star page. But we add guest stars on an episode-by-episode basis by adding their full name.
So either we have no system to indicate it (and probably never will), or we get the system David can code on relatively short notice
The confusion arises (and I've seen it arise on the Main Cast listings, too) is when someone sees a person listed in the credits and assumes that they should be listed here even if they didn't appear. David's solution doesn't address the Main Cast issue: presumably the Data Policies does.
Gadfly wrote:
The problem is that at TVMaze, the Show Star and Guest Star systems aren't set up the same. So while I'd like the appearing/credit-only system to be the same for both, it would presumably require more coding effort than simply adding a new category to the existing Guest Star types list.So either we have no system to indicate it (and probably never will), or we get the system David can code on relatively short notice
Exactly - we shouldn't overcomplicate this discussion by dragging other subjects into it. I'm happy to talk about our system of main cast & cast appearances, though making any changes in that area is indeed much more complicated so it shouldn't be tied to anything else.
Either way, right now our definition of Guest Cast is ambiguous. If someone is credited but not actually appearing, it's undefined whether the credit should be added here or not. If networks insist on making a mess like this, we have to decide how to deal with it, because leaving it ambiguous doesn't benefit anyone.
As far as I see, there are only two possibilities:
1. Creating a policy that a Guest Cast entry should not be created if the actor didn't appear in the episode despite being credited
2. Creating a policy to allow both appearing & non-appearing, creating the "credit only" type to allow indicating the difference
I don't think #1 is a great option, because Guest Cast is frequently added from press releases way before the episode has even aired. Someone could come in weeks later and delete a Guest Cast entry after watching the entire episode. After that, without digging through the edit logs you wouldn't know whether someone simply forgot to add this credit in the first place or whether it's rightfully missing.
In contrast, with option #2 everybody wins. You can continue adding Guest Cast entries as you've always done, while leaving room for someone who watched the entire episode to specify whether each actor actually appeared or not. There's no ambiguity or unclarity, so that's what I'm going to implement.
david wrote:
In contrast, with option #2 everybody wins. You can continue adding Guest Cast entries as you've always done, while leaving room for someone who watched the entire episode to specify whether each actor actually appeared or not. There's no ambiguity or unclarity, so that's what I'm going to implement.
But why is guest star deserve to get "credit only" status, and main cast are not? Main cast is also frequently added from press releases. So the whole #1 situation could be applied to main cast members as well.
tnt wrote:
But why is guest star deserve to get "credit only" status, and main cast are not? Main cast is also frequently added from press releases. So the whole #1 situation could be applied to main cast members as well.
How about reading the very first paragraph that I wrote?
I just ran across this the other day myself. The show was Good Witch episode 3x9. Paul Miller was credited as Co-star, but he didn't appear in the episode at all. So I assumed that it was a mistake and I did not add his name. But I think "Credit Only" is a good idea to avoid confusion in cases like this.
But more often than not this happens with main cast. It's very commonplace for names to appear in the starring cast credits, even if that cast member didn't appear in that particular episode.
tnt wrote:
But why is guest star deserve to get "credit only" status, and main cast are not? Main cast is also frequently added from press releases. So the whole #1 situation could be applied to main cast members as well.
I don't think it's a matter of what they deserve, as much as what the system is capable of displaying.
There's currently no way at TVMaze to list two different "tags" or statuses or whatever for main stars and indicate what that status is. There is for guest stars.
The other alternative would be to not list them, and have some kind of Episode Note to explain why they're not listed. But that's not currently an option, either.
Gadfly wrote:
I don't think it's a matter of what they deserve, as much as what the system is capable of displaying.There's currently no way at TVMaze to list two different "tags" or statuses or whatever for main stars and indicate what that status is. There is for guest stars.
The other alternative would be to not list them, and have some kind of Episode Note to explain why they're not listed. But that's not currently an option, either.
I mean "deserve the time and effort to implement this". I do not understand, why this can't wait until it can be done for both guest and main. And do this for any kind of cast at the same time. While "credit only" is pretty rare for guests it is practically common for the main cast, for any series with opening sequence.
But whatever. That's not for me to say.
tnt wrote:
I mean "deserve the time and effort to implement this". I do not understand, why this can't wait until it can be done for both guest and main. And do this for any kind of cast at the same time. While "credit only" is pretty rare for guests it is practically common for the main cast, for any series with opening sequence.But whatever. That's not for me to say.
But if you look at casr appearances, the ones that are not ticked and are in the season main cast are "credited only", or am I seeing this the wrong way?
JuanArango wrote:
But if you look at casr appearances, the ones that are not ticked and are in the season main cast are "credited only", or am I seeing this the wrong way?
That's pretty much how I take it as well. There's just the potential for confusion, was this person not ticked because s/he wasn't in the episode or because someone goofed? I spent a lot of time fixing episode of House for example to get the appearances correct for a few of those main cast members that were in episodes and not ticked.
I get that we can't get it to work with main cast (yet) hopefully it's something that can be done down the road, as it is *very* common with main cast of shows.